This short bit is getting so much traction on Notes that I thought I’d put it here and see what you all have to say. Right now, gays are building an ego-protective myth about who we are and what we've done. They're building this to avoid having to face the truth. I’m seeing gay men castigate people left and right for being “homophobes.” Why? Because normal, everyday, non-gay people are noticing the debauchery and commenting on how it’s changing their perceptions of homosexuality.
Just talked with an old Pride Weekend Pal about this. I can think of a lot of cultures etc that don't get a day, nevermind 30 days. It's sort of incredible that a once marginalized group achieved such cultural approbation. Josh, unrelated but relevant. Subscribed today and the Dischord invite didn't process. I've a screencap of the exact error message. Help? Communitee is part of what I came for.
Brutally honest. Thank you for saying what so many can't or won't say out of fear. The problem with our culture is moral cowardice. It's important to hear this from a courageous man.
Try dealing with Trumpophobes. As an openly engaged Trump supporter I have been called a right-wing extremist, white supremacist, racist, xenophobe and ,yes, homophobe. I have been called stupid and ignorant, and I have been told I should be in jail and/or I should leave the country. And this doesn't all come from the ignorant hoi polloi; all of this has also come from the 'enlightened' talking heads at CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, NYT, WaPo, and a bunch of others. And I can also include Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, AOC, Maxine Waters and the rest of the cabal of professional bigots posing as compassionate citizens.
Here's how I see it. People have a right to hate. Our freedom includes the right to express that hate. It's sad and it's pathetic, but these haters say more about themselves than they say about me. The fact is, anyone has a right to hate gays, and they have a right to hate Trump supporters, or anyone else. If I attempt to intimidate them into a compliance of silence, or of phony support, then I am just playing their sick game their sick way.
The good news is, we're all getting sick of it. As you suggest, it is not a person's being gay that bothers people so much, it's having it thrown in our face and being told we have to comply with some sort of made-up standard of tolerance. In the past, I've lost terrific gay neighbors to AIDS. I have gay friends. But they did not and do not wave their gayness in my face, and in return, I don't wave my Trump support in their face. After all, NO ONE has a right to be an asshole.
I just saw a poster from the 79s when homosexuality was still illegal and openly disapproved of, but it made a lot of sense for where we are now with some trans pushing boundaries so extremely. Approximately "If gays are civil, then they already have civil rights." Civility would be nice from everyone..
I was born in the 70's. We would have babysitters from families across the road, next door. There was even a Convent next door. I didn't find out till much later on that one of the boys across the road was gay but that was not important. He was one of the nicest people I ever met. He looked after an old lady up the road, he was a decent genuine human being, something we should all hope to emulate. He wasn't weird or freaky, he was well groomed well spoken well dressed, a stand up individual. There again his whole family were the same. Different times. Richard
The bushes and public restrooms I definitely don't understand. They're for peeing. How about a nice mattress? Oh, and maybe not having sex with people whose name you don't even know. Why is the bar so low? 😅
These people have been used mercilessly to carry various weighty agendas and have been given all the same latitudes as are given to other people having prominent and important roles in elite projects - some of them are now carrying water for the transhumanist agenda. So, while I think Josh is right that it's men's sex drive, it's actually men "off the leash". I don't think it's something we're proud of but the bar is anyway pretty low, especially if we've got the beer goggles on. But the gay community graduated from beer goggles more than 4 decades ago, which is why you see more pinnacles of excess.
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with sex with people whose name you didn't know earlier that night anyway (I've always found it to be immense fun) but sexual excess among gays may be more excusable than among heteros, as that's kind of all they've known (thanks to the above mentioned interference). The equivalent for us would be having our dating life start (and remain) in Ibiza, with pocketfuls of 'E's and unlimited cocktails until sunrise. We'd all be pretty debauched after just a few months of that.
A paradox underlies “rebellious leftists,” especially gay-flavored culture, which permits us all to be nonconformists en masse. In this way, true rebellion vanishes into uniformity, since we all dissent while wearing the same costumes and speaking the same stereotyped formulas. This requires no bravery nor independence, so it is intrinsically the opposite of radicalism.
In this condition, revolt becomes a stage prop waved by the “rebel group” at a pre-designated opponent, in a performance of “Epater le Bourgeoisie.” Again the meaning of genuine rebellion is obliterated by a mass ritual of premeditated transgression merely for its own sake, according to a script that — by its scripted nature — is never authentic resistance.
The extremism of gay/trans public stagecraft does not shock anyone as something dangerously subversive, it alienates because it is perverse groupthink driven by self-hatred and fear of isolation. It’s not that we homosexuals are crazy or toxic or provocative — it’s that we insist that our degradation empowers us and vindicates our contempt for an establishment whose authority we secretly crave. This is utter nihilism and that’s truly scary imo.
I’ve been cool with gays for 50 years; the portal was the music I loved. I met my first MtF individual, a kind nurse, around ‘85. It pains me that my neutral-to-advocate position has disintegrated in the past few years, but the aggressive assault of TIM/trans on intimate and public female life, and things such as the pubic lionization of gays who agreed to attend public orgies a few less days a week to reduce the spread of monkeypox have put a sour taste in my mouth.
I hate it because of the talented, private guy who lives across the hall from me, the curmudgeon at the local diner who served me coffee and groused that he despised Pride parades because “Who the hell should be proud of a bunch of half naked men swanning down the street?”, and countless other wonderful people I’ve known who happen to be gay or lesbians.
Recognizing that discretion is a virtue would help a lot of this.
What you said about the sexual piggishness of gay men reminds me of a scene in Will and Grace. Jack is talking about a date where he and the other guy didn't really hit it off, but he adds, "but it still ended in sex because.. you know.. men."
<"These gay men pitching a fit don’t seem to grasp that they are creating the very “homophobia” they claim to despise.">
An important insight, and one that is true of so many groups and of so many "phobias" and "isms." It seems to be an unavoidable byproduct of "victim consciousness," which is the real enemy, especially when group victimhood equals political power (at least for the representatives of the group).
Yes. It's largely silent, especially among middle age and elderly adults. But for those under 30, they're getting increasingly vocal (at least from what I've seen). There have been instances of verbal harassment, and probably physical violence that's gone unreported. In the LGBT world, many transfolk hate "cis gays" and have no problem vocalizing it.
So yeah, there's new homophobia. It'll probably escalate to violence within the next few years, and there won't be anything to stop it.
As a straight non-feminist woman, I wish what you said were true (in a qualified, non-violent way). The straight men I meet in my age group (Gen Xers, late Boomers) have either disavowed this part of themselves under the pretext of fake feminism--as if there is a real one-- or are legit passive aggressive low-Ts (supply your #notalls, as our host would say). Perhaps, gay men are the final frontier of masculinity and, for that reason, are being erased? Hmmm.
Well, yeah, my single-sentence observation/snark leaves out a lot of details. But one that's true is that the promiscuous part of gay culture is *really* biased regarding appearance and youth ... the same way straight guys are about women, and likely more so.
OTOH, straight guys are likely to be more uptight about sexual initiative toward women, as (on the average) women are a lot touchier about unwanted sexual attention. But US culture doesn't have a consensus about what degree of sexual forwardness men are expected to have toward women ...
I've been bitten by this in my life. I'm not much feminist as a matter of politics, but I reflexively expect the women I interact with to desire (or not) sex in about the same way I do, as an appetite which the meal in prospect will (or will not) satisfy. But as the French understand, there is a dynamic of pursuit and convincing that's usually quite asymmetric ...
All I was trying to say was that straight male sexual unruliness is, in the West, a relic. This type of masculinity might now be the exclusive province of gay men. This is a statement free of judgement. But I'll stop now. The thread is about gay people and mulling over breeder problems is probably not respectful on my part.
love your honesty, Josh. What you shared is thoughtful but also profound in its no-nonsense presentation. I think it’s something we all sort of intuitively felt but you put it in words. Most of us really don’t care about others’ sexual preferences but we don’t want to have to watch what you’re doing in the bedroom in a street parade. The end game of these public displays is really just a way for them to say “I hate you”. Or maybe some of them kind of hate themselves too. Ultimately, it strains our ability to see the best in each other.
Just talked with an old Pride Weekend Pal about this. I can think of a lot of cultures etc that don't get a day, nevermind 30 days. It's sort of incredible that a once marginalized group achieved such cultural approbation. Josh, unrelated but relevant. Subscribed today and the Dischord invite didn't process. I've a screencap of the exact error message. Help? Communitee is part of what I came for.
Hi Elizabeth,
Sorry about the Discord problem. I can help. Please email me using address admin at disaffected.com
Please be sure to include:
1. The correct email address you used to subscribe here on Substack
2. A screenshot of the error message
Thank you for your support!
Thank you! Sent from the email used to subscribe.
Responded to you from another email. Did see the longer email you sent. Cheers.
Thank you for sharing.
Brutally honest. Thank you for saying what so many can't or won't say out of fear. The problem with our culture is moral cowardice. It's important to hear this from a courageous man.
Try dealing with Trumpophobes. As an openly engaged Trump supporter I have been called a right-wing extremist, white supremacist, racist, xenophobe and ,yes, homophobe. I have been called stupid and ignorant, and I have been told I should be in jail and/or I should leave the country. And this doesn't all come from the ignorant hoi polloi; all of this has also come from the 'enlightened' talking heads at CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, NYT, WaPo, and a bunch of others. And I can also include Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, AOC, Maxine Waters and the rest of the cabal of professional bigots posing as compassionate citizens.
Here's how I see it. People have a right to hate. Our freedom includes the right to express that hate. It's sad and it's pathetic, but these haters say more about themselves than they say about me. The fact is, anyone has a right to hate gays, and they have a right to hate Trump supporters, or anyone else. If I attempt to intimidate them into a compliance of silence, or of phony support, then I am just playing their sick game their sick way.
The good news is, we're all getting sick of it. As you suggest, it is not a person's being gay that bothers people so much, it's having it thrown in our face and being told we have to comply with some sort of made-up standard of tolerance. In the past, I've lost terrific gay neighbors to AIDS. I have gay friends. But they did not and do not wave their gayness in my face, and in return, I don't wave my Trump support in their face. After all, NO ONE has a right to be an asshole.
I just saw a poster from the 79s when homosexuality was still illegal and openly disapproved of, but it made a lot of sense for where we are now with some trans pushing boundaries so extremely. Approximately "If gays are civil, then they already have civil rights." Civility would be nice from everyone..
I was born in the 70's. We would have babysitters from families across the road, next door. There was even a Convent next door. I didn't find out till much later on that one of the boys across the road was gay but that was not important. He was one of the nicest people I ever met. He looked after an old lady up the road, he was a decent genuine human being, something we should all hope to emulate. He wasn't weird or freaky, he was well groomed well spoken well dressed, a stand up individual. There again his whole family were the same. Different times. Richard
There's a book you should read called After the Ball. Out of print for a reason. I've emailed.
Holy cow! Avail on Amazon for hundreds of dollars. Also on us.archive (are links allowed? If so - https://ia800902.us.archive.org/6/items/AfterTheBallHowAmericaWillConquerItsFearHatredOfGaysInThe90s/After%20The%20Ball%20-%20How%20America%20Will%20Conquer%20Its%20Fear%20&%20Hatred%20Of%20Gays%20In%20The%2090s%20[OCR].pdf)
The bushes and public restrooms I definitely don't understand. They're for peeing. How about a nice mattress? Oh, and maybe not having sex with people whose name you don't even know. Why is the bar so low? 😅
These people have been used mercilessly to carry various weighty agendas and have been given all the same latitudes as are given to other people having prominent and important roles in elite projects - some of them are now carrying water for the transhumanist agenda. So, while I think Josh is right that it's men's sex drive, it's actually men "off the leash". I don't think it's something we're proud of but the bar is anyway pretty low, especially if we've got the beer goggles on. But the gay community graduated from beer goggles more than 4 decades ago, which is why you see more pinnacles of excess.
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with sex with people whose name you didn't know earlier that night anyway (I've always found it to be immense fun) but sexual excess among gays may be more excusable than among heteros, as that's kind of all they've known (thanks to the above mentioned interference). The equivalent for us would be having our dating life start (and remain) in Ibiza, with pocketfuls of 'E's and unlimited cocktails until sunrise. We'd all be pretty debauched after just a few months of that.
A paradox underlies “rebellious leftists,” especially gay-flavored culture, which permits us all to be nonconformists en masse. In this way, true rebellion vanishes into uniformity, since we all dissent while wearing the same costumes and speaking the same stereotyped formulas. This requires no bravery nor independence, so it is intrinsically the opposite of radicalism.
In this condition, revolt becomes a stage prop waved by the “rebel group” at a pre-designated opponent, in a performance of “Epater le Bourgeoisie.” Again the meaning of genuine rebellion is obliterated by a mass ritual of premeditated transgression merely for its own sake, according to a script that — by its scripted nature — is never authentic resistance.
The extremism of gay/trans public stagecraft does not shock anyone as something dangerously subversive, it alienates because it is perverse groupthink driven by self-hatred and fear of isolation. It’s not that we homosexuals are crazy or toxic or provocative — it’s that we insist that our degradation empowers us and vindicates our contempt for an establishment whose authority we secretly crave. This is utter nihilism and that’s truly scary imo.
I’ve been cool with gays for 50 years; the portal was the music I loved. I met my first MtF individual, a kind nurse, around ‘85. It pains me that my neutral-to-advocate position has disintegrated in the past few years, but the aggressive assault of TIM/trans on intimate and public female life, and things such as the pubic lionization of gays who agreed to attend public orgies a few less days a week to reduce the spread of monkeypox have put a sour taste in my mouth.
I hate it because of the talented, private guy who lives across the hall from me, the curmudgeon at the local diner who served me coffee and groused that he despised Pride parades because “Who the hell should be proud of a bunch of half naked men swanning down the street?”, and countless other wonderful people I’ve known who happen to be gay or lesbians.
Recognizing that discretion is a virtue would help a lot of this.
What you said about the sexual piggishness of gay men reminds me of a scene in Will and Grace. Jack is talking about a date where he and the other guy didn't really hit it off, but he adds, "but it still ended in sex because.. you know.. men."
Thank you for sharing.
<"These gay men pitching a fit don’t seem to grasp that they are creating the very “homophobia” they claim to despise.">
An important insight, and one that is true of so many groups and of so many "phobias" and "isms." It seems to be an unavoidable byproduct of "victim consciousness," which is the real enemy, especially when group victimhood equals political power (at least for the representatives of the group).
Is there a new wave of homophobia?
Yes. It's largely silent, especially among middle age and elderly adults. But for those under 30, they're getting increasingly vocal (at least from what I've seen). There have been instances of verbal harassment, and probably physical violence that's gone unreported. In the LGBT world, many transfolk hate "cis gays" and have no problem vocalizing it.
So yeah, there's new homophobia. It'll probably escalate to violence within the next few years, and there won't be anything to stop it.
Which is exactly what the Owners of the World have in mind. They nudged and funded this whole trend, for that very purpose.
Good observations. You always make good observations.
> We have a male sex drive that is not tempered by female disapproval. We are what straight men would be if women let them get away with it.
Heh, this is understood deep in his heart by every straight guy.
As a straight non-feminist woman, I wish what you said were true (in a qualified, non-violent way). The straight men I meet in my age group (Gen Xers, late Boomers) have either disavowed this part of themselves under the pretext of fake feminism--as if there is a real one-- or are legit passive aggressive low-Ts (supply your #notalls, as our host would say). Perhaps, gay men are the final frontier of masculinity and, for that reason, are being erased? Hmmm.
Well, yeah, my single-sentence observation/snark leaves out a lot of details. But one that's true is that the promiscuous part of gay culture is *really* biased regarding appearance and youth ... the same way straight guys are about women, and likely more so.
OTOH, straight guys are likely to be more uptight about sexual initiative toward women, as (on the average) women are a lot touchier about unwanted sexual attention. But US culture doesn't have a consensus about what degree of sexual forwardness men are expected to have toward women ...
I've been bitten by this in my life. I'm not much feminist as a matter of politics, but I reflexively expect the women I interact with to desire (or not) sex in about the same way I do, as an appetite which the meal in prospect will (or will not) satisfy. But as the French understand, there is a dynamic of pursuit and convincing that's usually quite asymmetric ...
All I was trying to say was that straight male sexual unruliness is, in the West, a relic. This type of masculinity might now be the exclusive province of gay men. This is a statement free of judgement. But I'll stop now. The thread is about gay people and mulling over breeder problems is probably not respectful on my part.
Josh, this deep self-reflection (within yourself and on the part of your fellow gays) is profound.
love your honesty, Josh. What you shared is thoughtful but also profound in its no-nonsense presentation. I think it’s something we all sort of intuitively felt but you put it in words. Most of us really don’t care about others’ sexual preferences but we don’t want to have to watch what you’re doing in the bedroom in a street parade. The end game of these public displays is really just a way for them to say “I hate you”. Or maybe some of them kind of hate themselves too. Ultimately, it strains our ability to see the best in each other.
I agree completely
https://www.spiked-online.com/2015/05/27/the-trouble-with-gay-marriage/
Andrew Doyle has a good video about trans, nonbinary and queer, taking over and that homosexual children are being nudged towards the trans surgery direction instead of accepting homosexuality. https://x.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1808744081180287471?t=-tBa_MnplkG7jMMTvIx-Zw&s=19