wow. 'I heard things about her' just vague made up sinister insinuations. weird that I totally forgot this scene. may have to watch the movie again. I wonder if the writer based the mother on anything personal
Gosh, I raised 3 sons and have 3 grandsons and never had to teach any of them to respect women. Their father/father figure did that by his actions in our lives. He always exhibited respect for me and the boys emulated that behavior. I guess it actually takes some more effort today because of the feminist movement and the forthcoming of so many militant girls that might not deserve any respect because they are demanding shrews, bent on destroying men’s masculinity. I think I remember seeing that movie and yes, that scene was very painful to watch. I cannot blame you for not viewing it, Josh.
This was not feminism. I know because my mother was not a feminist and I suffered this treatment as a daughter. I’m okay with research and scholarship around the impact of Cluster B mothers on sons, but while this scene characterizes it well it is not behavior exclusively acted on sons.
Sadly parents often take their frustrations of life out on their children, the poor children totally unable to comprehend why. The “right” is always demanding heterosexuals to marry and have kids. A big pet peeve of mine. Unstable adults unstable for whatever reason do not make stable, well adjusted and loving parents. They just take their freak show out on their vulnerable and unsuspecting children.
Incredibly painful scene. Dad (stepdad?) at the edge of the bed: devastating. It's a fantastic feat of acting, though, by the Broadway star Joanna Gleason, who can play *anything*. And by Wahlberg. And Phillip Seymour Hoffman. . . . I had screaming matches with my mom, but nothing remotely like this. Home as nightmare. Thanks for posting.
It’s a testimony to your strength and credit that you 1) survived 2) grew your artistic and psychosocial skills so well. This isn’t to diminish the deep scars and struggle, but to throw into relief your accomplishments despite the devastating obstacles.
The mom is reacting like an insane, jealous lover. I have 3 sons. I cannot wrap my mind around how a person could have sexual tendencies toward their kids. The sadism and cruelty alone is not comprehensible to me, let alone the sexual element. Lord have Mercy.
My grandmother pushed boundaries, that looking back, seemed weirdly sexual. The memories are vague but it was like she oblivious to my bodily sovereignty, bathing me when I was fully capable of washing myself, trying to get me to take my clothes off to swim in the river. I wonder about how she raised my dad and what boundaries she pushed with him. He grew up to be a troubled individual.
It does exist across the political spectrum for sure. I have not said or implied that it causes feminism. I think instead that extreme politics, modern feminism in this case, preferentially attract those with personality problems.
Cluster B is found in all political persuasions, extreme or not, and even among those who have no interest in politics.
Children always suffer when they have to detach from their mother. Suffering heaps upon suffering as successive life stages demand their unique detachments, whether successful or not. It's very difficult for a child when the two way attachment bond isn't healthy and the detachments, which might not have formed healthfully in the first place, don't occur in healthy ways or even at all. Cluster B have problems with attaching and with detaching. This has nothing to do with feminism. The mid-century vision and persona of the devoted mother who bends over and around her child is just as fertile a ground for narcisissm and histrionics as any other approach.
It's tough to be missing something that never was for oneself, the absence felt so keenly, and for which the solution was never more than an idealized vision created by advertising, with the absence so lucrative for the advertisers that to cause that keen sense of lack is the employment of multitudes. I feel for you.
This was very uncomfortable to watch. And, while my mother was not a feminist and I am female, I suffered this same type of treatment. That is not to diminish the point or the damage wrought on men who experienced this. I walked away with “ I will never be this way.” While boys might conclude “women are cruel and torture men.” Someone has to break the cycle. I did in my family.
I somehow managed to attract quite a few men whose mothers were some degree of "overbearing."
A couple of them literally flopped themselves down in front of me and said "tell me what to do." I had no interest in bossing them around, and it wasn't long before I felt contempt for them.
One of them couldn't make ordinary decisions. We'd go to a restaurant and he'd order something, then midway through the meal he'd lament that he didn't order some other dish. "Why didn't you just order that in the first place?" "Well, I thought I *should* order this one." (He was a covert NPD to boot.)
Another one with domineering sisters and mother had apparently learned that the way to get along with women was to let them make all the decisions, and he'd just go with the flow. I broke up with him when I realized that I was the only one "doing the relationship" while he was just along for the ride, like a leg iron.
The worst mother was a literal cow. She was morbidly obese, had untreated hernias bulging out and distorting her muumuu (I couldn't look away!), and a tow-headed little kid running around, the fruit of the seduction of a neighborhood teen.
I have to wonder how many boys thus damaged end up on the far left where the feminine pathology feels familiar. As opposed to the far right where the Bad Father vibe dominates. I guess.
I had forgotten all about this scene! Wow. That father just hiding in the bedroom while all of this occurs in the next room. Says it all really.
wow. 'I heard things about her' just vague made up sinister insinuations. weird that I totally forgot this scene. may have to watch the movie again. I wonder if the writer based the mother on anything personal
Gosh, I raised 3 sons and have 3 grandsons and never had to teach any of them to respect women. Their father/father figure did that by his actions in our lives. He always exhibited respect for me and the boys emulated that behavior. I guess it actually takes some more effort today because of the feminist movement and the forthcoming of so many militant girls that might not deserve any respect because they are demanding shrews, bent on destroying men’s masculinity. I think I remember seeing that movie and yes, that scene was very painful to watch. I cannot blame you for not viewing it, Josh.
This was not feminism. I know because my mother was not a feminist and I suffered this treatment as a daughter. I’m okay with research and scholarship around the impact of Cluster B mothers on sons, but while this scene characterizes it well it is not behavior exclusively acted on sons.
Until now, I had not realized how important that scene is to this movie. Thank you.
Sadly parents often take their frustrations of life out on their children, the poor children totally unable to comprehend why. The “right” is always demanding heterosexuals to marry and have kids. A big pet peeve of mine. Unstable adults unstable for whatever reason do not make stable, well adjusted and loving parents. They just take their freak show out on their vulnerable and unsuspecting children.
Incredibly painful scene. Dad (stepdad?) at the edge of the bed: devastating. It's a fantastic feat of acting, though, by the Broadway star Joanna Gleason, who can play *anything*. And by Wahlberg. And Phillip Seymour Hoffman. . . . I had screaming matches with my mom, but nothing remotely like this. Home as nightmare. Thanks for posting.
It’s a testimony to your strength and credit that you 1) survived 2) grew your artistic and psychosocial skills so well. This isn’t to diminish the deep scars and struggle, but to throw into relief your accomplishments despite the devastating obstacles.
This threw me back to my childhood. Not my mother, but my father… I cannot shake the sudden throwback in emotions. Sigh.
The mom is reacting like an insane, jealous lover. I have 3 sons. I cannot wrap my mind around how a person could have sexual tendencies toward their kids. The sadism and cruelty alone is not comprehensible to me, let alone the sexual element. Lord have Mercy.
I know. It's so, so common among abusive borderline mothers, though. They treat sons like husbands, and daughters like sexual competition.
My grandmother pushed boundaries, that looking back, seemed weirdly sexual. The memories are vague but it was like she oblivious to my bodily sovereignty, bathing me when I was fully capable of washing myself, trying to get me to take my clothes off to swim in the river. I wonder about how she raised my dad and what boundaries she pushed with him. He grew up to be a troubled individual.
Cluster B exists among traditional women too. It does not cause feminism.
It does exist across the political spectrum for sure. I have not said or implied that it causes feminism. I think instead that extreme politics, modern feminism in this case, preferentially attract those with personality problems.
Cluster B is found in all political persuasions, extreme or not, and even among those who have no interest in politics.
Children always suffer when they have to detach from their mother. Suffering heaps upon suffering as successive life stages demand their unique detachments, whether successful or not. It's very difficult for a child when the two way attachment bond isn't healthy and the detachments, which might not have formed healthfully in the first place, don't occur in healthy ways or even at all. Cluster B have problems with attaching and with detaching. This has nothing to do with feminism. The mid-century vision and persona of the devoted mother who bends over and around her child is just as fertile a ground for narcisissm and histrionics as any other approach.
It's tough to be missing something that never was for oneself, the absence felt so keenly, and for which the solution was never more than an idealized vision created by advertising, with the absence so lucrative for the advertisers that to cause that keen sense of lack is the employment of multitudes. I feel for you.
This was very uncomfortable to watch. And, while my mother was not a feminist and I am female, I suffered this same type of treatment. That is not to diminish the point or the damage wrought on men who experienced this. I walked away with “ I will never be this way.” While boys might conclude “women are cruel and torture men.” Someone has to break the cycle. I did in my family.
I somehow managed to attract quite a few men whose mothers were some degree of "overbearing."
A couple of them literally flopped themselves down in front of me and said "tell me what to do." I had no interest in bossing them around, and it wasn't long before I felt contempt for them.
One of them couldn't make ordinary decisions. We'd go to a restaurant and he'd order something, then midway through the meal he'd lament that he didn't order some other dish. "Why didn't you just order that in the first place?" "Well, I thought I *should* order this one." (He was a covert NPD to boot.)
Another one with domineering sisters and mother had apparently learned that the way to get along with women was to let them make all the decisions, and he'd just go with the flow. I broke up with him when I realized that I was the only one "doing the relationship" while he was just along for the ride, like a leg iron.
The worst mother was a literal cow. She was morbidly obese, had untreated hernias bulging out and distorting her muumuu (I couldn't look away!), and a tow-headed little kid running around, the fruit of the seduction of a neighborhood teen.
I have to wonder how many boys thus damaged end up on the far left where the feminine pathology feels familiar. As opposed to the far right where the Bad Father vibe dominates. I guess.
It's worth a watch. I usually find Julianne Moore a bit tedious, but she's quite good as Amber Waves.
That's the reason why I haven't divorced. Can't leave my kid alone and the courts wouldn't give a shit if I tried to explain that.