Josh, you have given me so much healing through your shared painful life experiences, contemplations, and wisdom. I’ve been following you since you were interviewed by Benjamin Boyce. I want to say THANK YOU.
The how and why of homosexuality is a question long studied, and while both nature and nurture have been considered the origins, the definitive answer has yet to be found. Likely, it doesn't have an either/or answer. Contemporary culture, i.e., the aughts forward have both blighted and muddied the question. Confused, mis-directed and educationally indoctrinated people have usurped homosexuality as part of their twisted game of culture destruction. I really feel for people like you, who seek a genuine desire to know yourself, but are not differentiated from the crowd of play-acting pretenders. Today homosexual, tomorrow a furry...you know the type all too well, I am sure.
Don't give up. You provide a valuable service to all of us, no matter our sexual orientation.
I had a wonderful psychoanalyst who discussed the possibility of homosexuality as an adaptation. For context, I had been talking about a gay male friend of mine who was very troubled. His family background fits perfectly with what Josh has been saying about the families of many gay men.
My psychoanalyst described being gay as an adaptation to my friend's early childhood environment. This was not a bad thing just neutral. Not a value judgment. But wow, you can't say that stuff without getting death threats now !!
Most of the gay men I know are fucked up in the head, but most of the PEOPLE I know are fucked up in the head.
Interestingly, some of the sanest, more centered people I have gotten to know are lesbians, but I probably have a skewed sample because I did work-study in a Brooklyn yoga studio that was run by a lesbian couple. Many of the regular, most dedicated students were lesbians, but they were getting lots of regular physical exercise and social contact and were practicing at least a skosh of meditation. Their mental state was probably not representative of your average lesbian in the wilds of 21st Century post-industrial civilization.
When I lived in Vermont, I encountered young women who described themselves with what to my ears are just made-up labels. "Gender queer non-binary" or whatever. The ones that come to mind now looked like they got ZERO exercise and wouldn't dream of meditating as their perpetual state of being unable to cope or manage their emotions was some sort of badge of honor for them. They were definitely more fucked up in the head than the average North American primate.
Being a lesbian would have been so much simpler. Instead I'm bisexual and it's certainly complicated things for me!
Much like Josh contemplates the origins of his homosexuality and its correlation with MH issues, I've started contemplating similar issues around bisexuality. We're definitely more confused, sexually deviant, indecisive, and unstable than average.
This is loneliness makes sense to me. I have the same feeling about certain topics primarily around women, career, and the psychology why women prefer to victimize themselves instead of living with the reality there is and learning how to be strong in it. Psychology and human behavior is another topic that you just simply cannot have an honest conversation about or only with very few people. I do not understand people that do not show natural curiosity. I always loved to talk about the why and how about everything I am involved in or what I observe. What I learned is that most people do not. People tend to prefer the easy way out and go with the explanation that requires the least of them. It is funny to me, you can so easily tell everyone and anyone that you are a fast runner or are otherwise gifted in art, sports, or gardening. When it comes to intelligence or natural curiosity about world and life, you cannot under any circumstance tell anyone that your intellectual capacity is higher than most. It is a taboo topic.
On your specific example, what makes someone like the same sex, I do not have any answers, but a lot of observations. When I was in college, I lived with a gay man. He and I spent hours in the evening talking about these topics. I miss these unconstraint conversations quite a bit. I am very observant and see patterns and trends quite frequently that others miss. I predicted where we are going with the current discourse on trans very early on and peaked way before people even knew this was an issue. The same with feminism. I divorced myself from feminism very early when I realized it was no longer supporting women the way I wished they would. I have my own ideas on why this is happening and what some of the root causes are. But I feel that when I address anything with friends I spend more time explaining basic concepts instead of philosophying about the topic I actually am curious about. It creates a loneliness that is causing me occasionally to give up and focus on other things. But then... these topics are largely important to me that I cannot let go. I am middle aged, but not yet ready to stop engaging with the world. I am not ready to be old and on the sidelines. I think I have experience that can offer something to the current youth.
Oh well. Keep complaining. It is one little thing making me feel a little less like an outcast or a weirdo.
I appreciate you saying this. I am so lucky to have friends who I can really talk to about the WHY of things and not much is really off the table.
In my family, work, community etc I feel isolated. Everyone just wants to get along and not think, even the smart people !!! I'm surprised how dumb smart people are !!
I am no longer talking to my younger (middle) sister. She only cares about minimizing conflict. She cannot recognize that there might be problems (with our family, culture) that make her uneasy. Thankfully I do have friends to talk with Thank god !
I find anyone actually interested in learning the truth and not being fed comforting lies ends up feeling this sort of loneliness. I would rather be lonely and sad or angry knowing the truth about something, than being blissfully ignorant. But I do wish we lived in a world where the majority actually wanted the truth rather than comforting lies.
I feel a similar loneliness being a woman. Watching all the hard fought gains made by past generations of deeply strong women slip away into this sick revelatory haze of dysfunction worship and clout chasing though victimhood one-upmanship has been disorienting, to say the least. Witnessing formerly strong women sit by impotently out of some misplaced sense of political correctness while we mutilate our children, give our sports records and scholarships to biological men, let toxic teachers tell our most innocent beings they are born with some original sin based on immutable characteristics.....it’s almost more than I can bear at times. We gave the keys to the asylum to the inmates out of an idiotic sense of “fairness”, and though they are literally burning the place to the ground, we still feel it would be “rude” to wrestle the keys back. I saw a TikTok video recently from a lesbian woman who said if she knew where the fight for gay and lesbian rights would have ended up, she never would have fought for them. I was beyond heartbroken. I am angry to the core of my being that this parasitic woke movement has co-opted actual important and necessary progress, and redirected it toward sick ideologies (like normalizing “minor attracted persons”). I look around at the other mothers around me and wonder if they have ANY limit to what they will give up in the name of being agreeable. Thank you Josh for being so vocal in your own community. Your podcast gives me strength and never fails to make me laugh :)
I feel the same. The disbelief, the despair, the rage and deep, deep fear for the future. The present is already dystopian, what will the future look like? Nobody to share it with except my husband. But he doesn't have quite the same rabid focus on it, (can't blame him), so can't talk as much about it as I'd like to. I find the Disaffected podcast a lifeblood. We are making more portress here in the UK, but by God, it's a relentless uphill battle.
Yes, the Lotus Eaters are fantastic. I really want to get them to do a show with Josh at some point. I got banned from Twitter so I've lost a lot of my old contacts but it'd be so cool to have them do something together.
Awesome! I used to appear on a friend's YT channel doing some political stuff and got to chat with Sargon on there among a bunch of other people, but I dropped off the radar for a while and then ended up getting banned from Twitter so I'm completely out of the loop now. I've just not made much of an effort to get back in the game because I got pretty burned out. But if you can get these two channels to work together that would be fantastic. I'm crossing my fingers
PS. I actually forgot what I'd put in my hashtags there for a minute. Yeah, I probably sound like an edgy teenager, lol. Glad it made you smile though.
They do a few interviews too - the most recent one was with Blaire White and Harry did a great job of asking a really good range of questions, whilst sitting back and allowing the conversation to go the way of the guest's choosing. That would be the perfect set-up as an introduction to you on there. And in an ideal world, you could get them back in turn and put them through your interview stuff on your channel. I would be so happy to see that. I love seeing smart minds come together and merge perspectives. Y'all both bring so much to these discussions of the culture wars and when we can get more folk from both audiences to also check out the other content, we create more bonds of friendship and help expound the anti-woke messaging. *Fingers crossed*
You can reach out to them at tips@lotuseaters.com. I think it's important that people are able tell their stories so other people can understand and help them along the path.
This probably won’t surprise you, but I’m already a subscriber to their pod :). I think I found them through Unsafe Space with Keri and Carter (which is how I found Josh too!). I think we’ve all stumbled into similar spaces for solace and sanity in the weird moment we are living through. Though I often feel intellectually lonely it does actually bring me comfort to know that when I listen to different podcasts or visit different Substacks so many of us are actually there together, if only in spirit :).
I am sorry you are feeling down, but I don’t think you should stop contemplating. I am not going to tell you how to feel. I can only imagine what life was like for you growing up and being gay. Not being accepted by society, being bullied or ostracized and above all, shamed, is not good for mental health.
As a straight single female, I can tell you that heterosexuality is not all it’s cracked up to be. In fact, it can be disastrous. This is not to minimize your pain at all, but I don’t believe men and women are naturally compatible. I think that’s what people mean when they say, “You really have to work on it.” Just look at the divorce rate. And there is a lot
of intellectual loneliness when two people are not somewhat evenly matched.
One of the happiest marriages in my family was between my recently departed relative and
his husband, who were together for over 30 years.
Another gay relative is also happy with who he is. What they both have in common is that they both always knew they were gay, and they both cultivated a lot of friendships and did a lot of entertaining. They surrounded themselves with loving, accepting people. And they both have been monogamous, although I don’t know if there were experiences outside their relationships. They were both masculine and had masculine partners, so maybe society has treated them a little better. One has been more open with me and told me about dealing with his church about it. He had a harder road with that, and I suppose coming out to his “good old boy” friends, but he found an accepting church.
I don’t know if there is a cause for homosexuality, but both of them had good relationships with their parents. They just always knew they were attracted to men, not to women.
It’s too bad this is still considered a problem to be solved in some circles. Maybe it’s a chicken-egg thing. We don’t know which came first, if being gay caused the problem, or if a problem caused someone to be gay, or if it’s all overlapping or related? But there has always been a certain percentage of the population who has been gay, so maybe it’s a variation in nature, and not a deviation, for some biological/evolutionary reason. At 39:00 in this video, Bret Weinstein and Douglas Murray discuss whether homosexuality is a hardware or a software issue, the so-called “gay gene,” and the differences between gay men and lesbians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knmy7RttHx4
I do think throwing trans into the mix has been very toxic to gay people and women. For many who do not understand the difference, there seems to be guilt by association, and women and gay people are being blamed for it and being told, “Well, you started all this.” Because how dare we ask for equality.
Having said that, I’ve had my share of the sass and attitude of gay male nurses, waiters and flight attendants. I don’t know if it’s a defense mechanism, male aggression, or what. But there is something going on there with some gay men that’s worth exploring. At the same time, I had a gay male friend in high school who was like an older brother to me, and who was right that the guy I was dating was a bad guy. He was right in everything he warned me about, and he had nothing to gain from it.
I thought you could write a book about it, but there is already a book on Amazon called “How to be a Happy Homosexual” by Terri Sanderson. I don’t know if it’s any good, but it’s only $1.50 for the paperback. Maybe you could talk to everyday gay men or maybe eventually interview some celebrities. Being gay is a problem most don’t have to grow up with, but I’m following you as well as Brandon Straka, Dave Rubin, Mr. Menno and Douglas Murray, who seemed to have come to terms with it. You are all also funny, intelligent, reasoned and rational. As far as my own neurosis, I have found role models and mentors in the world who gave me the support and encouragement that my parents didn’t.
If you were my son, I would be very proud of you. You are young, very attractive, scary smart, and wickedly funny. Your audience loves you. You have helped a lot of people in your profession. You have certainly helped me. The world could be your oyster. I have heard you talk about your mother on your videos, and she really did a number on you. So sorry.
Here is an another interview with Douglas Murray where Lex gets him to talk about “it” at 2:20, and sex and love and 2:27, if you haven’t seen it. This probably doesn’t help, but from my perspective, you have everything going for you. People have inner demons that are very hard to explain to others or for others to understand. I always thought less of myself, too, so that part a lot of people can relate to, as well as not fitting in. Although I don’t know you personally, I don’t think there is something wrong with you, other than being human. Thank you for being you.
Hi Josh, it appears you have touched a nerve. While I do not identify with the core question, I do believe I can identify with the loneliness that accompanies intellectual curiosity. I offer you this for what's is worth. The reward is the desire to travel that road. Even though it may be born out of trauma or suffering, having the desire and traveling the road is life, is being alive, and the alternative is death. The ultimate destination is unknowable, thank goodness. Do not dispare. Appreciate the journey and the victories along the way. There are people who will be inspired and want to join you. All the best.
I'm with you. I feel the same way as I contemplate things like the total de-stigmatisation of sex, where all sex is equally valid and equally valuable, and the only moral/ethical question to consider is consent.
He says: "A core focus of gay liberation politics should be an end that people are able to have consenting sex for pleasure, free of any type of medical or social consequence."
Really? Is that what we are meant to be aiming for? Sex for pleasure that has ZERO medical or social consequences? This is a bit of a lightbulb moment for me as I've realised I instinctively do not agree with this stance. And yet I spent my 20s essentially treating sexual liberation as my guiding principle!
I'm a bisexual woman (though mostly same-sex-oriented when it comes to pursuing romantic relationships). I've started reflecting on my own sexual journey. I used to consider myself a feminist, one of the "sex-positive" ones. I used to use the phrase "slutty not sleazy" to describe my sexual proclivities and mindset, especially with regards to men. I used to say things like "Objectification is fine if it's mutual" and how ethics are never a binary (no such thing as bad behaviour, because life is complicated, eh!). I rejected monogamy, which meant various of my relationships eventually went pear-shaped. Yes, I cheated and also slept with people who were cheating, without it weighing on my conscience. And so on.
Looking back, I'm questioning some of my attitudes and behaviours; I can apply judgment and say without any doubt that some of what I did was wrong.
I used to watch a certain amount of gay male porn and read gay male blogs about male sexcapades. I used to put the gay male libertine lifestyle on a bit of a pedestal. Why? I'm trying to figure it out. Because the last few years I have moved away from this superficial and slightly obsessive approach to sex. I saw up close in many Reddit communities how much dysfunction there can be when people make kink and/or sluttiness a central part of their identity. I experienced first-hand how trying to do "ethical non-monogamy" results in hurt feelings, emotional drama and confusion.
In short, "sex positivity" appears to attract a lot of toxic and/or damaged people.
So I've started to wonder if I was drawn to this mindset because I'm damaged too? I dunno. I have struggled with anxiety and depression on/off during my life and I had an ED as a teen. But I had loving parents who were in a loving marriage and didn't have anything traumatic happen in childhood. So what made me become sexually deviant or non-conforming, so to speak?
I am now several years into a very fulfilling relationship with another bisexual woman who has been fairly slutty in her own past but is very invested in monogamy and has never labelled herself (she's not "kinky", not a feminist, not "sex-positive", etc.). It is the most emotionally connected sex I have ever had -- truly something else, which I never fathomed existed quite frankly. For so many years I was a complete cynic about romance. I thought relationships weren't for me, that they were constraining, that I couldn't be my "true" self if I only had sex with one person...
So much to explore. But you get derided as a puritan or right-winger if you flag up some of these topics in certain circles these days.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write out this response; it was very honest and despite my being a straight woman I could identify with a lot of what you said.
The whole "sex-positive" concept that has gone wild over the past few decades is something that has infiltrated the mindset of people of every sexual persuasion. I'm 42 so I was in my late teens when the whole "girl-power" notion took hold, pushing the idea of no-holds-barred, sexual "liberation" as a kind of "ladette" culture. Young women were suddenly encouraged to look upon sex as something that we could engage in casually, frequently and without any of the previous notions of shame or negativity, that in times gone by would have been looked down upon as slutty.
The image peddled by the media at the time was of a new, sexually enlightened freedom that we could and should embrace wholeheartedly. And I for one did take this as a sort of permission to engage in some casual one-night stands myself. It was the new "done thing" right? and it was "only sex" after all; no harm, no foul, right?
Well, yeah I guess so. But I have to admit that in those few encounters where I did what every other young woman in my circle of friends was doing, it never really felt all that amazing. I mean taking the actual sexual gratification side out of it (and let's be honest, most of us know enough about how our own bodies work to be sure to "get off" in even the most uninspiring of encounters) the whole thing just felt pretty empty and missing something. Quite what that was, I wasn't able to figure out until I actually dropped out of the "hook-up" game and found proper fulfilment in serious, committed relationships.
I know you're not a straight woman, but us chicks, whether we like it or not, are programmed to want that next level of more committed love when it comes to sex. I guess it all goes back to our ancestral need to keep our partners with us in order to ensure that any offspring we produced always had the man around to protect and provide for it. Both sexes produce oxytocin after sex (the bonding hormone) to encourage us to want to stay together and form that bonded partnership, but it's just as powerful in same-sex relationships; possibly more so in lesbian relationships with both women getting that really high, post-sex connection? (I don't know if there's been any studies on that?)
I can't speak to the relationships of gay men, but I know that the straight man I've now been together with for 14 years agrees with me that while it was fun (and important) to do the wild-oat sowing at first, the deeper connection in a committed relationship is a whole different level of sexual experience.
What "sex positivity" did was take the ideas inherent in so many neo-Marxist ideologies and set them loose on the general public, with a view to the breakdown of human relationships as a whole. When groups like BLM say that they want to destroy the nuclear family, it's all connected to these ideologies. The connection between two individuals (of whatever sex/persuasion) is a powerful, emotional bond. Whilst it's the strongest building block with which to centre a familial construction around, it's also something that creates a whole little world of its own, separate from anyone else outside of the relationship. That's not something that these intersectional fuckwits want us to have, because it stops us from being open to their identity politics and social dynamics. The left hates that.
When we're in a strong committed relationship we rely less on others for our happiness. When we work on ourselves so that we become strong individuals and then go on to connect with another person who we can unite with against the world, we're a threat to the ideologies that want us weak, single, lonely and prone to manipulation. Gay, straight or bisexual...with children or without, these bonds of love and commitment are powerful and help us to remain immune to external loci of happiness.
Those who are already hurt, broken and dysfunctional - whether through negative life experiences or inherent mental instabilities - are perfect fodder for things like "sex positivity" ideologies. It gives them the perfect outlet for a constant search for fulfilment through repeated hook-ups and interactions with others. It'll never truly fulfil them though and so they keep on keeping on, falling for the bullshit about pushing the envelope further, of never believing in anything being shameful. And in reality it just hurts them more.
That's just how I see it anyway. Like I said, like you I'm now in a long-term, happily committed relationship. My other half is amazing and we constantly joke about being one another's 'Bonnie' or 'Clyde' because it really is us against the world. We've both done the "free love" thing in our younger years, but both being pretty well adjusted people, we were able to take it for what it was without coming out the other side damaged by any of it. We're just both sort of ambivalent about it. It is what it is and while some of it was fun, we have no desire to go back to it. Sex is a whole other level of enjoyment/fulfilment when you have that intense connection.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on for so long. I just really liked what you had to say and felt like I could relate to a lot of it. Glad to hear that you've met someone who you have that with now. I love to hear about other people being happy in stable long-term relationships. Stay happy!
Bex
PS. There's nothing wrong with sounding "right-wing". I'm a self-titled "right-wing-battle-axe" - although I'm much more of a libertarian bent. We're not all puritans, lol. Take care x
What a great conversation. It's good to read what both of you are saying.
Even though I'm a man, I've found in middle age that the promiscuity of my youth left me feeling empty and unloved (because that's what it does leave people). I'm not convinced it's good for men, either. Though I do think it harms women even more.
I completely agree with you in that it also harms me - regardless of whether or not said men are coming into that environment with or without prior mental health issues or problems stemming from their raising and familial interactions. We as a world do not regard men as importantly as we should. We don't even want to acknowledge that y'all are the other half of a whole that needs healthiness and happiness for all if we as a society are to succeed.
Promiscuity isn't good for anyone. But it provides a helluva long ride of a distraction for those with problems to try and find a way to constantly avoid their deep seated issues, when the promise of eternal freedom and unlimited liberation is on the table. You can only live life as a libertine before it eventually catches up with you. It's not how we evolved and shaping those patterns as dissolvable social constructs with no real meaning or connection to our past is not just dysgenic, it's ignorant and shows an unwillingness to get to know who we all really are as a species; as a member of the human race. As part of this great family of other people we could truly get more from if we stopped seeing everyone as the product of a transaction. Unfortunately, men's natural desire to compete probably does them more harm than good in this arena, which is why it's super important to raise guys to have outlets for their competitive nature. Some things don't need to be a competition and when you've got that outlet elsewhere, you don't need to make sex just another conquest. Conquer the world, not your bodycount.
Thanks for your response :) And don't ever apologise for rambling, this is what the comments section is for!
You're so right in pointing out that movements like BLM, liberal feminism, and queer & trans activism seem very invested in breaking down family structures and discouraging pair-bonding. Now that I've woken up to this fact, I'm revisiting everything I thought I knew. The point of society, after all, is to create a harmonious, stable and prosperous environment for the next generation, right? Yet so much of what we see promoted in popular culture -- and so many of the ideologies prominent in public discourse -- are actively undermining this aim.
I don't know why but I fall into that minority of women who didn't leave casual encounters feeling "pretty empty and missing something", as you describe. Instead I found myself feeling exhilarated, excited and, yes, empowered. It's only through hindsight and reflection that I can recognise all the pitfalls and ways in which my mindset impeded the cultivation of meaningful relationships and made emotional fulfillment elusive.
I think I score very high on what is called "socio-sexuality" (the desire for variety and multiple partners). This seemed to be wired into my brain long before I ever watched porn or had sex. I'm 38, so similar to you. I was fascinated by sexual possibilities as a preteen in the 90s and was aware of my bisexual inclinations by age 12. By the time I was 13/14 I was writing smutty X-Files fan fiction (before I even knew "fanfic" was a thing) and exchanging stories with randos on chatrooms.
Between the ages of 15-16 I got heavily involved in an online feminist community run by Bust magazine. The forums focused on a range of topics but of course sex & relationships were very prominent. It was all very much discussed through the lens of "Women should be allowed to have sex for pleasure, and we need to fight patriarchal systems of repression and double standards!"
The way I see it, my brain was fertile ground for this ideology; I didn't have to be convinced of anything. By the time I started having sex at 17, I had spent hundreds of hours intellectualising on the topic with internet randos as well as constructing rather imaginative and precocious fantasies. In short, I had already forged an identity for myself as a liberated sex-positive feminist.
Yet the truth is that this identity was never so seamless or effortless to embrace. There always existed a tension within me which I fought hard to rationalise away though never entirely succesfully (though I spent ~15 years trying!). You say we are “programmed to want the next level of committed love”. This is undeniable, and I think applies to many men too. I saw it in some of the truly good guys I dated and had flings with – they wanted intimacy, not just sex and “hanging out”. But I would do mental gymnastics to tell myself I wasn’t treating them badly; no, I was just doing what so many men regularly do to women.
Then I found myself falling for some of my female partners, which made me realise that I was not immune to romance. At the end of the day, much as I was proud to reclaim sluthood, much as I had centred my identity on sexual liberation… the people I was actually drawn to emotionally, the people I really connected to, the people I respected, were well-adjusted types keen on monogamy. Is it any wonder that I eventually disappointed them or scared them off? (I’d say there’s damn good reasons why lesbians being distrustful of bi girls is a well-entrenched trope!)
Meanwhile, when I turned my attention to people more like me, who intellectualised endlessly about sex and “identity”, who shamelessly indulged in sex as a pasttime -- God the truth is I often either disliked them outright or found them rather pathetic. I know, I know… why did it take so long for the penny to drop?
For most of my 20s, even into my 30s, there were lingering mental instabilities that I hadn’t dealt with, probably stemming from growing up between two different countries and then going to university and settling in a third. I always felt like an outsider, a nomad, always disconnected from existing family and friend networks. Because of this, I tended to retreat a lot into a pseudo-intellectualism which promoted a rather negative outlook on humanity. I romanticised the idea of life as a series of fleeting connections and interactions.
But damn, when you do that, you’re not actually growing. You’re not actually building anything. I can’t believe it took me until the age of 35 to grasp that. I’m reading a really excellent book at the moment, btw, that touches on a lot of these themes. It’s called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution, by British commentator Louise Perry. In a chapter called “The Virtue of Repression”, she writes:
“We should treat our sexual partners with dignity; we should not regard other people as merely body parts to be enjoyed. We should aspire to love and mutuality in all our sexual relationships, gay or straight. We should prioritise virtue over desire. We should not assume that any given feeling in our hearts – or our loins – ought to be acted upon.”
The modern left will not even countenance a conversation around these issues. “Virtue” is practically a dirty word.
Anyway, I have rambled enough! But before I go, one final thought: my current partner and I were friends for 2 years before any sparks emerged (romantic or sexual). For the first time, I laid a foundation with someone rather than prioritising sex. Maybe the universe conspired to teach me this lesson, allowing me to organically bond with someone without sex as a distraction, so that when sex finally happened, it was almost transcendent.
I’m glad you too found your match too and that you’ve built a life together. Our culture should really celebrate this more :)
My issues are not necessarily your issues, but I understand the feeling. The past two years have been extraordinarily isolating for me, and I think a lot of people. Wish I had more wisdom to share with you and myself. We will just to have push through I guess. Though, I am pleased that you are not avoiding the issue and I appreciate you being so open about it.
As the ex-wife of a man who thinks he's a woman, and mythe years of experiencing sexual, emotional and intellectual loneliness, I tell you this: find your heart in nature. Love your parents and help them into their elderly years, unless they have dealt you too harshly. My parents are gone now, and I feel so connected to them, in the fragrance of my flowers, in the butterflies that visit, the bees, the hummingbirds. Do all you can to garden in your world, whatever it is. Take care of your body, watch the changing light every day. I've lost so much in this new totalitarianism, where my sons will not speak to me since I say their father is their father. I've turned to the natural world for inspiration, and it does not fail me. Grow something. It is not too late.
I think it would be pretty ignorant for me to try to say that I know how you feel or that I can truly identify with the statements/issues stated above. I mean I guess anyone can feel a sense of potential loneliness when it comes to wondering whether we'll find a partner who will be both morally and intellectually equal to us. But as a straight woman (god that sounds so intersectionally vapid, lol!) I obviously had a much larger dating to pool to go paddling in, than you as a gay man. So there's nothing I can say or offer you that you won't already know yourself. The only suggestion I would give is to keep on doing what you mentioned, in talking with other men in your situation. Your friend George (who is absolutely adorable and the I love seeing how the two of you interact on the podcast) I think mentioned being married. If he can find his lobster, he's probably the best person to sound off at when trying to find your own.
(I can totally imagine George being the gay man's version of the Yiddish shadchan...matchmaking like a madman and making an absolute fortune out of it, lol)
Wish I could say something more helpful Josh, but despite the left trying to make out like despite all the identity breakdowns, everyone is somehow also exactly the same as the next person, despite our life differences...in reality, there are just some issues and areas of life that affect us differently depending on various demographic groupings. And because of that, I'm just not qualified to be helpful here.
If it helps to make you laugh though, I did once kill a man with my breasts. So there's always that to maybe help put a smile on your face! x
Laughing does help! As does this good conversation and fellowship. Thank you.
To be clear, I do not want a partner, a lover, a husband, or any of that. That's not in the cards for me. I am single and celibate by choice. Some parts of people get broken and stay broken. I'm better off by myself.
Disaffected?
Very. And lonely in it.
Josh, you have given me so much healing through your shared painful life experiences, contemplations, and wisdom. I’ve been following you since you were interviewed by Benjamin Boyce. I want to say THANK YOU.
That's kind of you to say, and it pleases me that you've found something useful in what I talk about.
The how and why of homosexuality is a question long studied, and while both nature and nurture have been considered the origins, the definitive answer has yet to be found. Likely, it doesn't have an either/or answer. Contemporary culture, i.e., the aughts forward have both blighted and muddied the question. Confused, mis-directed and educationally indoctrinated people have usurped homosexuality as part of their twisted game of culture destruction. I really feel for people like you, who seek a genuine desire to know yourself, but are not differentiated from the crowd of play-acting pretenders. Today homosexual, tomorrow a furry...you know the type all too well, I am sure.
Don't give up. You provide a valuable service to all of us, no matter our sexual orientation.
I had a wonderful psychoanalyst who discussed the possibility of homosexuality as an adaptation. For context, I had been talking about a gay male friend of mine who was very troubled. His family background fits perfectly with what Josh has been saying about the families of many gay men.
My psychoanalyst described being gay as an adaptation to my friend's early childhood environment. This was not a bad thing just neutral. Not a value judgment. But wow, you can't say that stuff without getting death threats now !!
Edited for grammar and bizarre misspelling
Most of the gay men I know are fucked up in the head, but most of the PEOPLE I know are fucked up in the head.
Interestingly, some of the sanest, more centered people I have gotten to know are lesbians, but I probably have a skewed sample because I did work-study in a Brooklyn yoga studio that was run by a lesbian couple. Many of the regular, most dedicated students were lesbians, but they were getting lots of regular physical exercise and social contact and were practicing at least a skosh of meditation. Their mental state was probably not representative of your average lesbian in the wilds of 21st Century post-industrial civilization.
When I lived in Vermont, I encountered young women who described themselves with what to my ears are just made-up labels. "Gender queer non-binary" or whatever. The ones that come to mind now looked like they got ZERO exercise and wouldn't dream of meditating as their perpetual state of being unable to cope or manage their emotions was some sort of badge of honor for them. They were definitely more fucked up in the head than the average North American primate.
Being a lesbian would have been so much simpler. Instead I'm bisexual and it's certainly complicated things for me!
Much like Josh contemplates the origins of his homosexuality and its correlation with MH issues, I've started contemplating similar issues around bisexuality. We're definitely more confused, sexually deviant, indecisive, and unstable than average.
This is loneliness makes sense to me. I have the same feeling about certain topics primarily around women, career, and the psychology why women prefer to victimize themselves instead of living with the reality there is and learning how to be strong in it. Psychology and human behavior is another topic that you just simply cannot have an honest conversation about or only with very few people. I do not understand people that do not show natural curiosity. I always loved to talk about the why and how about everything I am involved in or what I observe. What I learned is that most people do not. People tend to prefer the easy way out and go with the explanation that requires the least of them. It is funny to me, you can so easily tell everyone and anyone that you are a fast runner or are otherwise gifted in art, sports, or gardening. When it comes to intelligence or natural curiosity about world and life, you cannot under any circumstance tell anyone that your intellectual capacity is higher than most. It is a taboo topic.
On your specific example, what makes someone like the same sex, I do not have any answers, but a lot of observations. When I was in college, I lived with a gay man. He and I spent hours in the evening talking about these topics. I miss these unconstraint conversations quite a bit. I am very observant and see patterns and trends quite frequently that others miss. I predicted where we are going with the current discourse on trans very early on and peaked way before people even knew this was an issue. The same with feminism. I divorced myself from feminism very early when I realized it was no longer supporting women the way I wished they would. I have my own ideas on why this is happening and what some of the root causes are. But I feel that when I address anything with friends I spend more time explaining basic concepts instead of philosophying about the topic I actually am curious about. It creates a loneliness that is causing me occasionally to give up and focus on other things. But then... these topics are largely important to me that I cannot let go. I am middle aged, but not yet ready to stop engaging with the world. I am not ready to be old and on the sidelines. I think I have experience that can offer something to the current youth.
Oh well. Keep complaining. It is one little thing making me feel a little less like an outcast or a weirdo.
I appreciate you saying this. I am so lucky to have friends who I can really talk to about the WHY of things and not much is really off the table.
In my family, work, community etc I feel isolated. Everyone just wants to get along and not think, even the smart people !!! I'm surprised how dumb smart people are !!
I am no longer talking to my younger (middle) sister. She only cares about minimizing conflict. She cannot recognize that there might be problems (with our family, culture) that make her uneasy. Thankfully I do have friends to talk with Thank god !
I find anyone actually interested in learning the truth and not being fed comforting lies ends up feeling this sort of loneliness. I would rather be lonely and sad or angry knowing the truth about something, than being blissfully ignorant. But I do wish we lived in a world where the majority actually wanted the truth rather than comforting lies.
I agree with your take.
But sometimes it hurts.
I know. Sorry.
I feel a similar loneliness being a woman. Watching all the hard fought gains made by past generations of deeply strong women slip away into this sick revelatory haze of dysfunction worship and clout chasing though victimhood one-upmanship has been disorienting, to say the least. Witnessing formerly strong women sit by impotently out of some misplaced sense of political correctness while we mutilate our children, give our sports records and scholarships to biological men, let toxic teachers tell our most innocent beings they are born with some original sin based on immutable characteristics.....it’s almost more than I can bear at times. We gave the keys to the asylum to the inmates out of an idiotic sense of “fairness”, and though they are literally burning the place to the ground, we still feel it would be “rude” to wrestle the keys back. I saw a TikTok video recently from a lesbian woman who said if she knew where the fight for gay and lesbian rights would have ended up, she never would have fought for them. I was beyond heartbroken. I am angry to the core of my being that this parasitic woke movement has co-opted actual important and necessary progress, and redirected it toward sick ideologies (like normalizing “minor attracted persons”). I look around at the other mothers around me and wonder if they have ANY limit to what they will give up in the name of being agreeable. Thank you Josh for being so vocal in your own community. Your podcast gives me strength and never fails to make me laugh :)
Yes. We feel just the same.
I feel the same. The disbelief, the despair, the rage and deep, deep fear for the future. The present is already dystopian, what will the future look like? Nobody to share it with except my husband. But he doesn't have quite the same rabid focus on it, (can't blame him), so can't talk as much about it as I'd like to. I find the Disaffected podcast a lifeblood. We are making more portress here in the UK, but by God, it's a relentless uphill battle.
You might like the Podcast of the Lotus Eaters -
https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePodcastoftheLotusEaters/videos
Here are a selection of what they put out -
Nonce Disrespecting Is a Hate Crime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz-Sb1VJAow
Reddit Bans “Groomer”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaWCUujJxR0
The G Word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mkBRUvStDA
Yes, the Lotus Eaters are fantastic. I really want to get them to do a show with Josh at some point. I got banned from Twitter so I've lost a lot of my old contacts but it'd be so cool to have them do something together.
I just emailed them with a link, I've met them at a live event and they do actually take up some of my ideas, so we'll see what happens.
PS love the hashtags in the bio, LOL.
Awesome! I used to appear on a friend's YT channel doing some political stuff and got to chat with Sargon on there among a bunch of other people, but I dropped off the radar for a while and then ended up getting banned from Twitter so I'm completely out of the loop now. I've just not made much of an effort to get back in the game because I got pretty burned out. But if you can get these two channels to work together that would be fantastic. I'm crossing my fingers
PS. I actually forgot what I'd put in my hashtags there for a minute. Yeah, I probably sound like an edgy teenager, lol. Glad it made you smile though.
Being banned on Twitter is now a right of passage and simultaneously a badge of honour in 2022.
You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies. — Oscar Wilde
They kindly allowed our mutual friend, Helen Dale, to use their studio in London to come on my show.
I listen to them, and would enjoy a conversation if they're ever interested.
They do a few interviews too - the most recent one was with Blaire White and Harry did a great job of asking a really good range of questions, whilst sitting back and allowing the conversation to go the way of the guest's choosing. That would be the perfect set-up as an introduction to you on there. And in an ideal world, you could get them back in turn and put them through your interview stuff on your channel. I would be so happy to see that. I love seeing smart minds come together and merge perspectives. Y'all both bring so much to these discussions of the culture wars and when we can get more folk from both audiences to also check out the other content, we create more bonds of friendship and help expound the anti-woke messaging. *Fingers crossed*
You can reach out to them at tips@lotuseaters.com. I think it's important that people are able tell their stories so other people can understand and help them along the path.
This probably won’t surprise you, but I’m already a subscriber to their pod :). I think I found them through Unsafe Space with Keri and Carter (which is how I found Josh too!). I think we’ve all stumbled into similar spaces for solace and sanity in the weird moment we are living through. Though I often feel intellectually lonely it does actually bring me comfort to know that when I listen to different podcasts or visit different Substacks so many of us are actually there together, if only in spirit :).
I am sorry you are feeling down, but I don’t think you should stop contemplating. I am not going to tell you how to feel. I can only imagine what life was like for you growing up and being gay. Not being accepted by society, being bullied or ostracized and above all, shamed, is not good for mental health.
As a straight single female, I can tell you that heterosexuality is not all it’s cracked up to be. In fact, it can be disastrous. This is not to minimize your pain at all, but I don’t believe men and women are naturally compatible. I think that’s what people mean when they say, “You really have to work on it.” Just look at the divorce rate. And there is a lot
of intellectual loneliness when two people are not somewhat evenly matched.
One of the happiest marriages in my family was between my recently departed relative and
his husband, who were together for over 30 years.
Another gay relative is also happy with who he is. What they both have in common is that they both always knew they were gay, and they both cultivated a lot of friendships and did a lot of entertaining. They surrounded themselves with loving, accepting people. And they both have been monogamous, although I don’t know if there were experiences outside their relationships. They were both masculine and had masculine partners, so maybe society has treated them a little better. One has been more open with me and told me about dealing with his church about it. He had a harder road with that, and I suppose coming out to his “good old boy” friends, but he found an accepting church.
I don’t know if there is a cause for homosexuality, but both of them had good relationships with their parents. They just always knew they were attracted to men, not to women.
It’s too bad this is still considered a problem to be solved in some circles. Maybe it’s a chicken-egg thing. We don’t know which came first, if being gay caused the problem, or if a problem caused someone to be gay, or if it’s all overlapping or related? But there has always been a certain percentage of the population who has been gay, so maybe it’s a variation in nature, and not a deviation, for some biological/evolutionary reason. At 39:00 in this video, Bret Weinstein and Douglas Murray discuss whether homosexuality is a hardware or a software issue, the so-called “gay gene,” and the differences between gay men and lesbians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knmy7RttHx4
I do think throwing trans into the mix has been very toxic to gay people and women. For many who do not understand the difference, there seems to be guilt by association, and women and gay people are being blamed for it and being told, “Well, you started all this.” Because how dare we ask for equality.
Having said that, I’ve had my share of the sass and attitude of gay male nurses, waiters and flight attendants. I don’t know if it’s a defense mechanism, male aggression, or what. But there is something going on there with some gay men that’s worth exploring. At the same time, I had a gay male friend in high school who was like an older brother to me, and who was right that the guy I was dating was a bad guy. He was right in everything he warned me about, and he had nothing to gain from it.
I thought you could write a book about it, but there is already a book on Amazon called “How to be a Happy Homosexual” by Terri Sanderson. I don’t know if it’s any good, but it’s only $1.50 for the paperback. Maybe you could talk to everyday gay men or maybe eventually interview some celebrities. Being gay is a problem most don’t have to grow up with, but I’m following you as well as Brandon Straka, Dave Rubin, Mr. Menno and Douglas Murray, who seemed to have come to terms with it. You are all also funny, intelligent, reasoned and rational. As far as my own neurosis, I have found role models and mentors in the world who gave me the support and encouragement that my parents didn’t.
If you were my son, I would be very proud of you. You are young, very attractive, scary smart, and wickedly funny. Your audience loves you. You have helped a lot of people in your profession. You have certainly helped me. The world could be your oyster. I have heard you talk about your mother on your videos, and she really did a number on you. So sorry.
Here is an another interview with Douglas Murray where Lex gets him to talk about “it” at 2:20, and sex and love and 2:27, if you haven’t seen it. This probably doesn’t help, but from my perspective, you have everything going for you. People have inner demons that are very hard to explain to others or for others to understand. I always thought less of myself, too, so that part a lot of people can relate to, as well as not fitting in. Although I don’t know you personally, I don’t think there is something wrong with you, other than being human. Thank you for being you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG7I6Bt_NZY
Hi Josh, it appears you have touched a nerve. While I do not identify with the core question, I do believe I can identify with the loneliness that accompanies intellectual curiosity. I offer you this for what's is worth. The reward is the desire to travel that road. Even though it may be born out of trauma or suffering, having the desire and traveling the road is life, is being alive, and the alternative is death. The ultimate destination is unknowable, thank goodness. Do not dispare. Appreciate the journey and the victories along the way. There are people who will be inspired and want to join you. All the best.
I'm with you. I feel the same way as I contemplate things like the total de-stigmatisation of sex, where all sex is equally valid and equally valuable, and the only moral/ethical question to consider is consent.
I stumbled upon this tweet by a prominent UK gay commentator: https://twitter.com/jasebyjason/status/1551350671999471617
He says: "A core focus of gay liberation politics should be an end that people are able to have consenting sex for pleasure, free of any type of medical or social consequence."
Really? Is that what we are meant to be aiming for? Sex for pleasure that has ZERO medical or social consequences? This is a bit of a lightbulb moment for me as I've realised I instinctively do not agree with this stance. And yet I spent my 20s essentially treating sexual liberation as my guiding principle!
I'm a bisexual woman (though mostly same-sex-oriented when it comes to pursuing romantic relationships). I've started reflecting on my own sexual journey. I used to consider myself a feminist, one of the "sex-positive" ones. I used to use the phrase "slutty not sleazy" to describe my sexual proclivities and mindset, especially with regards to men. I used to say things like "Objectification is fine if it's mutual" and how ethics are never a binary (no such thing as bad behaviour, because life is complicated, eh!). I rejected monogamy, which meant various of my relationships eventually went pear-shaped. Yes, I cheated and also slept with people who were cheating, without it weighing on my conscience. And so on.
Looking back, I'm questioning some of my attitudes and behaviours; I can apply judgment and say without any doubt that some of what I did was wrong.
I used to watch a certain amount of gay male porn and read gay male blogs about male sexcapades. I used to put the gay male libertine lifestyle on a bit of a pedestal. Why? I'm trying to figure it out. Because the last few years I have moved away from this superficial and slightly obsessive approach to sex. I saw up close in many Reddit communities how much dysfunction there can be when people make kink and/or sluttiness a central part of their identity. I experienced first-hand how trying to do "ethical non-monogamy" results in hurt feelings, emotional drama and confusion.
In short, "sex positivity" appears to attract a lot of toxic and/or damaged people.
So I've started to wonder if I was drawn to this mindset because I'm damaged too? I dunno. I have struggled with anxiety and depression on/off during my life and I had an ED as a teen. But I had loving parents who were in a loving marriage and didn't have anything traumatic happen in childhood. So what made me become sexually deviant or non-conforming, so to speak?
I am now several years into a very fulfilling relationship with another bisexual woman who has been fairly slutty in her own past but is very invested in monogamy and has never labelled herself (she's not "kinky", not a feminist, not "sex-positive", etc.). It is the most emotionally connected sex I have ever had -- truly something else, which I never fathomed existed quite frankly. For so many years I was a complete cynic about romance. I thought relationships weren't for me, that they were constraining, that I couldn't be my "true" self if I only had sex with one person...
So much to explore. But you get derided as a puritan or right-winger if you flag up some of these topics in certain circles these days.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write out this response; it was very honest and despite my being a straight woman I could identify with a lot of what you said.
The whole "sex-positive" concept that has gone wild over the past few decades is something that has infiltrated the mindset of people of every sexual persuasion. I'm 42 so I was in my late teens when the whole "girl-power" notion took hold, pushing the idea of no-holds-barred, sexual "liberation" as a kind of "ladette" culture. Young women were suddenly encouraged to look upon sex as something that we could engage in casually, frequently and without any of the previous notions of shame or negativity, that in times gone by would have been looked down upon as slutty.
The image peddled by the media at the time was of a new, sexually enlightened freedom that we could and should embrace wholeheartedly. And I for one did take this as a sort of permission to engage in some casual one-night stands myself. It was the new "done thing" right? and it was "only sex" after all; no harm, no foul, right?
Well, yeah I guess so. But I have to admit that in those few encounters where I did what every other young woman in my circle of friends was doing, it never really felt all that amazing. I mean taking the actual sexual gratification side out of it (and let's be honest, most of us know enough about how our own bodies work to be sure to "get off" in even the most uninspiring of encounters) the whole thing just felt pretty empty and missing something. Quite what that was, I wasn't able to figure out until I actually dropped out of the "hook-up" game and found proper fulfilment in serious, committed relationships.
I know you're not a straight woman, but us chicks, whether we like it or not, are programmed to want that next level of more committed love when it comes to sex. I guess it all goes back to our ancestral need to keep our partners with us in order to ensure that any offspring we produced always had the man around to protect and provide for it. Both sexes produce oxytocin after sex (the bonding hormone) to encourage us to want to stay together and form that bonded partnership, but it's just as powerful in same-sex relationships; possibly more so in lesbian relationships with both women getting that really high, post-sex connection? (I don't know if there's been any studies on that?)
I can't speak to the relationships of gay men, but I know that the straight man I've now been together with for 14 years agrees with me that while it was fun (and important) to do the wild-oat sowing at first, the deeper connection in a committed relationship is a whole different level of sexual experience.
What "sex positivity" did was take the ideas inherent in so many neo-Marxist ideologies and set them loose on the general public, with a view to the breakdown of human relationships as a whole. When groups like BLM say that they want to destroy the nuclear family, it's all connected to these ideologies. The connection between two individuals (of whatever sex/persuasion) is a powerful, emotional bond. Whilst it's the strongest building block with which to centre a familial construction around, it's also something that creates a whole little world of its own, separate from anyone else outside of the relationship. That's not something that these intersectional fuckwits want us to have, because it stops us from being open to their identity politics and social dynamics. The left hates that.
When we're in a strong committed relationship we rely less on others for our happiness. When we work on ourselves so that we become strong individuals and then go on to connect with another person who we can unite with against the world, we're a threat to the ideologies that want us weak, single, lonely and prone to manipulation. Gay, straight or bisexual...with children or without, these bonds of love and commitment are powerful and help us to remain immune to external loci of happiness.
Those who are already hurt, broken and dysfunctional - whether through negative life experiences or inherent mental instabilities - are perfect fodder for things like "sex positivity" ideologies. It gives them the perfect outlet for a constant search for fulfilment through repeated hook-ups and interactions with others. It'll never truly fulfil them though and so they keep on keeping on, falling for the bullshit about pushing the envelope further, of never believing in anything being shameful. And in reality it just hurts them more.
That's just how I see it anyway. Like I said, like you I'm now in a long-term, happily committed relationship. My other half is amazing and we constantly joke about being one another's 'Bonnie' or 'Clyde' because it really is us against the world. We've both done the "free love" thing in our younger years, but both being pretty well adjusted people, we were able to take it for what it was without coming out the other side damaged by any of it. We're just both sort of ambivalent about it. It is what it is and while some of it was fun, we have no desire to go back to it. Sex is a whole other level of enjoyment/fulfilment when you have that intense connection.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on for so long. I just really liked what you had to say and felt like I could relate to a lot of it. Glad to hear that you've met someone who you have that with now. I love to hear about other people being happy in stable long-term relationships. Stay happy!
Bex
PS. There's nothing wrong with sounding "right-wing". I'm a self-titled "right-wing-battle-axe" - although I'm much more of a libertarian bent. We're not all puritans, lol. Take care x
What a great conversation. It's good to read what both of you are saying.
Even though I'm a man, I've found in middle age that the promiscuity of my youth left me feeling empty and unloved (because that's what it does leave people). I'm not convinced it's good for men, either. Though I do think it harms women even more.
I completely agree with you in that it also harms me - regardless of whether or not said men are coming into that environment with or without prior mental health issues or problems stemming from their raising and familial interactions. We as a world do not regard men as importantly as we should. We don't even want to acknowledge that y'all are the other half of a whole that needs healthiness and happiness for all if we as a society are to succeed.
Promiscuity isn't good for anyone. But it provides a helluva long ride of a distraction for those with problems to try and find a way to constantly avoid their deep seated issues, when the promise of eternal freedom and unlimited liberation is on the table. You can only live life as a libertine before it eventually catches up with you. It's not how we evolved and shaping those patterns as dissolvable social constructs with no real meaning or connection to our past is not just dysgenic, it's ignorant and shows an unwillingness to get to know who we all really are as a species; as a member of the human race. As part of this great family of other people we could truly get more from if we stopped seeing everyone as the product of a transaction. Unfortunately, men's natural desire to compete probably does them more harm than good in this arena, which is why it's super important to raise guys to have outlets for their competitive nature. Some things don't need to be a competition and when you've got that outlet elsewhere, you don't need to make sex just another conquest. Conquer the world, not your bodycount.
Thanks for your response :) And don't ever apologise for rambling, this is what the comments section is for!
You're so right in pointing out that movements like BLM, liberal feminism, and queer & trans activism seem very invested in breaking down family structures and discouraging pair-bonding. Now that I've woken up to this fact, I'm revisiting everything I thought I knew. The point of society, after all, is to create a harmonious, stable and prosperous environment for the next generation, right? Yet so much of what we see promoted in popular culture -- and so many of the ideologies prominent in public discourse -- are actively undermining this aim.
I don't know why but I fall into that minority of women who didn't leave casual encounters feeling "pretty empty and missing something", as you describe. Instead I found myself feeling exhilarated, excited and, yes, empowered. It's only through hindsight and reflection that I can recognise all the pitfalls and ways in which my mindset impeded the cultivation of meaningful relationships and made emotional fulfillment elusive.
I think I score very high on what is called "socio-sexuality" (the desire for variety and multiple partners). This seemed to be wired into my brain long before I ever watched porn or had sex. I'm 38, so similar to you. I was fascinated by sexual possibilities as a preteen in the 90s and was aware of my bisexual inclinations by age 12. By the time I was 13/14 I was writing smutty X-Files fan fiction (before I even knew "fanfic" was a thing) and exchanging stories with randos on chatrooms.
Between the ages of 15-16 I got heavily involved in an online feminist community run by Bust magazine. The forums focused on a range of topics but of course sex & relationships were very prominent. It was all very much discussed through the lens of "Women should be allowed to have sex for pleasure, and we need to fight patriarchal systems of repression and double standards!"
The way I see it, my brain was fertile ground for this ideology; I didn't have to be convinced of anything. By the time I started having sex at 17, I had spent hundreds of hours intellectualising on the topic with internet randos as well as constructing rather imaginative and precocious fantasies. In short, I had already forged an identity for myself as a liberated sex-positive feminist.
Yet the truth is that this identity was never so seamless or effortless to embrace. There always existed a tension within me which I fought hard to rationalise away though never entirely succesfully (though I spent ~15 years trying!). You say we are “programmed to want the next level of committed love”. This is undeniable, and I think applies to many men too. I saw it in some of the truly good guys I dated and had flings with – they wanted intimacy, not just sex and “hanging out”. But I would do mental gymnastics to tell myself I wasn’t treating them badly; no, I was just doing what so many men regularly do to women.
Then I found myself falling for some of my female partners, which made me realise that I was not immune to romance. At the end of the day, much as I was proud to reclaim sluthood, much as I had centred my identity on sexual liberation… the people I was actually drawn to emotionally, the people I really connected to, the people I respected, were well-adjusted types keen on monogamy. Is it any wonder that I eventually disappointed them or scared them off? (I’d say there’s damn good reasons why lesbians being distrustful of bi girls is a well-entrenched trope!)
Meanwhile, when I turned my attention to people more like me, who intellectualised endlessly about sex and “identity”, who shamelessly indulged in sex as a pasttime -- God the truth is I often either disliked them outright or found them rather pathetic. I know, I know… why did it take so long for the penny to drop?
For most of my 20s, even into my 30s, there were lingering mental instabilities that I hadn’t dealt with, probably stemming from growing up between two different countries and then going to university and settling in a third. I always felt like an outsider, a nomad, always disconnected from existing family and friend networks. Because of this, I tended to retreat a lot into a pseudo-intellectualism which promoted a rather negative outlook on humanity. I romanticised the idea of life as a series of fleeting connections and interactions.
But damn, when you do that, you’re not actually growing. You’re not actually building anything. I can’t believe it took me until the age of 35 to grasp that. I’m reading a really excellent book at the moment, btw, that touches on a lot of these themes. It’s called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution, by British commentator Louise Perry. In a chapter called “The Virtue of Repression”, she writes:
“We should treat our sexual partners with dignity; we should not regard other people as merely body parts to be enjoyed. We should aspire to love and mutuality in all our sexual relationships, gay or straight. We should prioritise virtue over desire. We should not assume that any given feeling in our hearts – or our loins – ought to be acted upon.”
The modern left will not even countenance a conversation around these issues. “Virtue” is practically a dirty word.
Anyway, I have rambled enough! But before I go, one final thought: my current partner and I were friends for 2 years before any sparks emerged (romantic or sexual). For the first time, I laid a foundation with someone rather than prioritising sex. Maybe the universe conspired to teach me this lesson, allowing me to organically bond with someone without sex as a distraction, so that when sex finally happened, it was almost transcendent.
I’m glad you too found your match too and that you’ve built a life together. Our culture should really celebrate this more :)
My issues are not necessarily your issues, but I understand the feeling. The past two years have been extraordinarily isolating for me, and I think a lot of people. Wish I had more wisdom to share with you and myself. We will just to have push through I guess. Though, I am pleased that you are not avoiding the issue and I appreciate you being so open about it.
As the ex-wife of a man who thinks he's a woman, and mythe years of experiencing sexual, emotional and intellectual loneliness, I tell you this: find your heart in nature. Love your parents and help them into their elderly years, unless they have dealt you too harshly. My parents are gone now, and I feel so connected to them, in the fragrance of my flowers, in the butterflies that visit, the bees, the hummingbirds. Do all you can to garden in your world, whatever it is. Take care of your body, watch the changing light every day. I've lost so much in this new totalitarianism, where my sons will not speak to me since I say their father is their father. I've turned to the natural world for inspiration, and it does not fail me. Grow something. It is not too late.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com
I think it would be pretty ignorant for me to try to say that I know how you feel or that I can truly identify with the statements/issues stated above. I mean I guess anyone can feel a sense of potential loneliness when it comes to wondering whether we'll find a partner who will be both morally and intellectually equal to us. But as a straight woman (god that sounds so intersectionally vapid, lol!) I obviously had a much larger dating to pool to go paddling in, than you as a gay man. So there's nothing I can say or offer you that you won't already know yourself. The only suggestion I would give is to keep on doing what you mentioned, in talking with other men in your situation. Your friend George (who is absolutely adorable and the I love seeing how the two of you interact on the podcast) I think mentioned being married. If he can find his lobster, he's probably the best person to sound off at when trying to find your own.
(I can totally imagine George being the gay man's version of the Yiddish shadchan...matchmaking like a madman and making an absolute fortune out of it, lol)
Wish I could say something more helpful Josh, but despite the left trying to make out like despite all the identity breakdowns, everyone is somehow also exactly the same as the next person, despite our life differences...in reality, there are just some issues and areas of life that affect us differently depending on various demographic groupings. And because of that, I'm just not qualified to be helpful here.
If it helps to make you laugh though, I did once kill a man with my breasts. So there's always that to maybe help put a smile on your face! x
Laughing does help! As does this good conversation and fellowship. Thank you.
To be clear, I do not want a partner, a lover, a husband, or any of that. That's not in the cards for me. I am single and celibate by choice. Some parts of people get broken and stay broken. I'm better off by myself.