This cannot be helped or changed, and I'm only complaining. But. The more I contemplate homosexuality and its relationship to the childhood environment, neurosis, and its correlation with high levels of mental illness and mood/personality dysfunction, the more I feel. . . there isn't one word for it.
I feel a similar loneliness being a woman. Watching all the hard fought gains made by past generations of deeply strong women slip away into this sick revelatory haze of dysfunction worship and clout chasing though victimhood one-upmanship has been disorienting, to say the least. Witnessing formerly strong women sit by impotently out of some misplaced sense of political correctness while we mutilate our children, give our sports records and scholarships to biological men, let toxic teachers tell our most innocent beings they are born with some original sin based on immutable characteristics.....it’s almost more than I can bear at times. We gave the keys to the asylum to the inmates out of an idiotic sense of “fairness”, and though they are literally burning the place to the ground, we still feel it would be “rude” to wrestle the keys back. I saw a TikTok video recently from a lesbian woman who said if she knew where the fight for gay and lesbian rights would have ended up, she never would have fought for them. I was beyond heartbroken. I am angry to the core of my being that this parasitic woke movement has co-opted actual important and necessary progress, and redirected it toward sick ideologies (like normalizing “minor attracted persons”). I look around at the other mothers around me and wonder if they have ANY limit to what they will give up in the name of being agreeable. Thank you Josh for being so vocal in your own community. Your podcast gives me strength and never fails to make me laugh :)
I find anyone actually interested in learning the truth and not being fed comforting lies ends up feeling this sort of loneliness. I would rather be lonely and sad or angry knowing the truth about something, than being blissfully ignorant. But I do wish we lived in a world where the majority actually wanted the truth rather than comforting lies.
This is loneliness makes sense to me. I have the same feeling about certain topics primarily around women, career, and the psychology why women prefer to victimize themselves instead of living with the reality there is and learning how to be strong in it. Psychology and human behavior is another topic that you just simply cannot have an honest conversation about or only with very few people. I do not understand people that do not show natural curiosity. I always loved to talk about the why and how about everything I am involved in or what I observe. What I learned is that most people do not. People tend to prefer the easy way out and go with the explanation that requires the least of them. It is funny to me, you can so easily tell everyone and anyone that you are a fast runner or are otherwise gifted in art, sports, or gardening. When it comes to intelligence or natural curiosity about world and life, you cannot under any circumstance tell anyone that your intellectual capacity is higher than most. It is a taboo topic.
On your specific example, what makes someone like the same sex, I do not have any answers, but a lot of observations. When I was in college, I lived with a gay man. He and I spent hours in the evening talking about these topics. I miss these unconstraint conversations quite a bit. I am very observant and see patterns and trends quite frequently that others miss. I predicted where we are going with the current discourse on trans very early on and peaked way before people even knew this was an issue. The same with feminism. I divorced myself from feminism very early when I realized it was no longer supporting women the way I wished they would. I have my own ideas on why this is happening and what some of the root causes are. But I feel that when I address anything with friends I spend more time explaining basic concepts instead of philosophying about the topic I actually am curious about. It creates a loneliness that is causing me occasionally to give up and focus on other things. But then... these topics are largely important to me that I cannot let go. I am middle aged, but not yet ready to stop engaging with the world. I am not ready to be old and on the sidelines. I think I have experience that can offer something to the current youth.
Oh well. Keep complaining. It is one little thing making me feel a little less like an outcast or a weirdo.
Most of the gay men I know are fucked up in the head, but most of the PEOPLE I know are fucked up in the head.
Interestingly, some of the sanest, more centered people I have gotten to know are lesbians, but I probably have a skewed sample because I did work-study in a Brooklyn yoga studio that was run by a lesbian couple. Many of the regular, most dedicated students were lesbians, but they were getting lots of regular physical exercise and social contact and were practicing at least a skosh of meditation. Their mental state was probably not representative of your average lesbian in the wilds of 21st Century post-industrial civilization.
When I lived in Vermont, I encountered young women who described themselves with what to my ears are just made-up labels. "Gender queer non-binary" or whatever. The ones that come to mind now looked like they got ZERO exercise and wouldn't dream of meditating as their perpetual state of being unable to cope or manage their emotions was some sort of badge of honor for them. They were definitely more fucked up in the head than the average North American primate.
The how and why of homosexuality is a question long studied, and while both nature and nurture have been considered the origins, the definitive answer has yet to be found. Likely, it doesn't have an either/or answer. Contemporary culture, i.e., the aughts forward have both blighted and muddied the question. Confused, mis-directed and educationally indoctrinated people have usurped homosexuality as part of their twisted game of culture destruction. I really feel for people like you, who seek a genuine desire to know yourself, but are not differentiated from the crowd of play-acting pretenders. Today homosexual, tomorrow a furry...you know the type all too well, I am sure.
Don't give up. You provide a valuable service to all of us, no matter our sexual orientation.
I'm with you. I feel the same way as I contemplate things like the total de-stigmatisation of sex, where all sex is equally valid and equally valuable, and the only moral/ethical question to consider is consent.
I stumbled upon this tweet by a prominent UK gay commentator: https://twitter.com/jasebyjason/status/1551350671999471617
He says: "A core focus of gay liberation politics should be an end that people are able to have consenting sex for pleasure, free of any type of medical or social consequence."
Really? Is that what we are meant to be aiming for? Sex for pleasure that has ZERO medical or social consequences? This is a bit of a lightbulb moment for me as I've realised I instinctively do not agree with this stance. And yet I spent my 20s essentially treating sexual liberation as my guiding principle!
I'm a bisexual woman (though mostly same-sex-oriented when it comes to pursuing romantic relationships). I've started reflecting on my own sexual journey. I used to consider myself a feminist, one of the "sex-positive" ones. I used to use the phrase "slutty not sleazy" to describe my sexual proclivities and mindset, especially with regards to men. I used to say things like "Objectification is fine if it's mutual" and how ethics are never a binary (no such thing as bad behaviour, because life is complicated, eh!). I rejected monogamy, which meant various of my relationships eventually went pear-shaped. Yes, I cheated and also slept with people who were cheating, without it weighing on my conscience. And so on.
Looking back, I'm questioning some of my attitudes and behaviours; I can apply judgment and say without any doubt that some of what I did was wrong.
I used to watch a certain amount of gay male porn and read gay male blogs about male sexcapades. I used to put the gay male libertine lifestyle on a bit of a pedestal. Why? I'm trying to figure it out. Because the last few years I have moved away from this superficial and slightly obsessive approach to sex. I saw up close in many Reddit communities how much dysfunction there can be when people make kink and/or sluttiness a central part of their identity. I experienced first-hand how trying to do "ethical non-monogamy" results in hurt feelings, emotional drama and confusion.
In short, "sex positivity" appears to attract a lot of toxic and/or damaged people.
So I've started to wonder if I was drawn to this mindset because I'm damaged too? I dunno. I have struggled with anxiety and depression on/off during my life and I had an ED as a teen. But I had loving parents who were in a loving marriage and didn't have anything traumatic happen in childhood. So what made me become sexually deviant or non-conforming, so to speak?
I am now several years into a very fulfilling relationship with another bisexual woman who has been fairly slutty in her own past but is very invested in monogamy and has never labelled herself (she's not "kinky", not a feminist, not "sex-positive", etc.). It is the most emotionally connected sex I have ever had -- truly something else, which I never fathomed existed quite frankly. For so many years I was a complete cynic about romance. I thought relationships weren't for me, that they were constraining, that I couldn't be my "true" self if I only had sex with one person...
So much to explore. But you get derided as a puritan or right-winger if you flag up some of these topics in certain circles these days.
Hi Josh, it appears you have touched a nerve. While I do not identify with the core question, I do believe I can identify with the loneliness that accompanies intellectual curiosity. I offer you this for what's is worth. The reward is the desire to travel that road. Even though it may be born out of trauma or suffering, having the desire and traveling the road is life, is being alive, and the alternative is death. The ultimate destination is unknowable, thank goodness. Do not dispare. Appreciate the journey and the victories along the way. There are people who will be inspired and want to join you. All the best.
I am sorry you are feeling down, but I don’t think you should stop contemplating. I am not going to tell you how to feel. I can only imagine what life was like for you growing up and being gay. Not being accepted by society, being bullied or ostracized and above all, shamed, is not good for mental health.
As a straight single female, I can tell you that heterosexuality is not all it’s cracked up to be. In fact, it can be disastrous. This is not to minimize your pain at all, but I don’t believe men and women are naturally compatible. I think that’s what people mean when they say, “You really have to work on it.” Just look at the divorce rate. And there is a lot
of intellectual loneliness when two people are not somewhat evenly matched.
One of the happiest marriages in my family was between my recently departed relative and
his husband, who were together for over 30 years.
Another gay relative is also happy with who he is. What they both have in common is that they both always knew they were gay, and they both cultivated a lot of friendships and did a lot of entertaining. They surrounded themselves with loving, accepting people. And they both have been monogamous, although I don’t know if there were experiences outside their relationships. They were both masculine and had masculine partners, so maybe society has treated them a little better. One has been more open with me and told me about dealing with his church about it. He had a harder road with that, and I suppose coming out to his “good old boy” friends, but he found an accepting church.
I don’t know if there is a cause for homosexuality, but both of them had good relationships with their parents. They just always knew they were attracted to men, not to women.
It’s too bad this is still considered a problem to be solved in some circles. Maybe it’s a chicken-egg thing. We don’t know which came first, if being gay caused the problem, or if a problem caused someone to be gay, or if it’s all overlapping or related? But there has always been a certain percentage of the population who has been gay, so maybe it’s a variation in nature, and not a deviation, for some biological/evolutionary reason. At 39:00 in this video, Bret Weinstein and Douglas Murray discuss whether homosexuality is a hardware or a software issue, the so-called “gay gene,” and the differences between gay men and lesbians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knmy7RttHx4
I do think throwing trans into the mix has been very toxic to gay people and women. For many who do not understand the difference, there seems to be guilt by association, and women and gay people are being blamed for it and being told, “Well, you started all this.” Because how dare we ask for equality.
Having said that, I’ve had my share of the sass and attitude of gay male nurses, waiters and flight attendants. I don’t know if it’s a defense mechanism, male aggression, or what. But there is something going on there with some gay men that’s worth exploring. At the same time, I had a gay male friend in high school who was like an older brother to me, and who was right that the guy I was dating was a bad guy. He was right in everything he warned me about, and he had nothing to gain from it.
I thought you could write a book about it, but there is already a book on Amazon called “How to be a Happy Homosexual” by Terri Sanderson. I don’t know if it’s any good, but it’s only $1.50 for the paperback. Maybe you could talk to everyday gay men or maybe eventually interview some celebrities. Being gay is a problem most don’t have to grow up with, but I’m following you as well as Brandon Straka, Dave Rubin, Mr. Menno and Douglas Murray, who seemed to have come to terms with it. You are all also funny, intelligent, reasoned and rational. As far as my own neurosis, I have found role models and mentors in the world who gave me the support and encouragement that my parents didn’t.
If you were my son, I would be very proud of you. You are young, very attractive, scary smart, and wickedly funny. Your audience loves you. You have helped a lot of people in your profession. You have certainly helped me. The world could be your oyster. I have heard you talk about your mother on your videos, and she really did a number on you. So sorry.
Here is an another interview with Douglas Murray where Lex gets him to talk about “it” at 2:20, and sex and love and 2:27, if you haven’t seen it. This probably doesn’t help, but from my perspective, you have everything going for you. People have inner demons that are very hard to explain to others or for others to understand. I always thought less of myself, too, so that part a lot of people can relate to, as well as not fitting in. Although I don’t know you personally, I don’t think there is something wrong with you, other than being human. Thank you for being you.
My issues are not necessarily your issues, but I understand the feeling. The past two years have been extraordinarily isolating for me, and I think a lot of people. Wish I had more wisdom to share with you and myself. We will just to have push through I guess. Though, I am pleased that you are not avoiding the issue and I appreciate you being so open about it.
As the ex-wife of a man who thinks he's a woman, and mythe years of experiencing sexual, emotional and intellectual loneliness, I tell you this: find your heart in nature. Love your parents and help them into their elderly years, unless they have dealt you too harshly. My parents are gone now, and I feel so connected to them, in the fragrance of my flowers, in the butterflies that visit, the bees, the hummingbirds. Do all you can to garden in your world, whatever it is. Take care of your body, watch the changing light every day. I've lost so much in this new totalitarianism, where my sons will not speak to me since I say their father is their father. I've turned to the natural world for inspiration, and it does not fail me. Grow something. It is not too late.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com
I think it would be pretty ignorant for me to try to say that I know how you feel or that I can truly identify with the statements/issues stated above. I mean I guess anyone can feel a sense of potential loneliness when it comes to wondering whether we'll find a partner who will be both morally and intellectually equal to us. But as a straight woman (god that sounds so intersectionally vapid, lol!) I obviously had a much larger dating to pool to go paddling in, than you as a gay man. So there's nothing I can say or offer you that you won't already know yourself. The only suggestion I would give is to keep on doing what you mentioned, in talking with other men in your situation. Your friend George (who is absolutely adorable and the I love seeing how the two of you interact on the podcast) I think mentioned being married. If he can find his lobster, he's probably the best person to sound off at when trying to find your own.
(I can totally imagine George being the gay man's version of the Yiddish shadchan...matchmaking like a madman and making an absolute fortune out of it, lol)
Wish I could say something more helpful Josh, but despite the left trying to make out like despite all the identity breakdowns, everyone is somehow also exactly the same as the next person, despite our life differences...in reality, there are just some issues and areas of life that affect us differently depending on various demographic groupings. And because of that, I'm just not qualified to be helpful here.
If it helps to make you laugh though, I did once kill a man with my breasts. So there's always that to maybe help put a smile on your face! x