I cannot wrap my head around this mind set. A responsible adult takes care of themselves, their dependents and, to a reasonable degree, their community members in need. When did reason go out the window for so very many?!
I had an argument with one of these people in my own family, about being asked to raise taxes to pay for illegal immigrant shelter and care. I said Americans shouldn't have to pay for services we don't even give our own people. I was told (yelled at really) that the problem was that people just won't vote in their own interests! When pressed this person could not explain to me how exactly that would be in the interest of Americans. Then they changed the subject. I just don't get what the world looks like from inside their heads.
They morally believe it’s their obligation to give to and protect people who are not from their country or race, and will go out their way to insult or belittle a friend over a statement of fact regarding people who aren’t even present to hear it.
Almost makes you think Ayn Rand was on to something. Or Adam Smith. People really need to think through the implications of what it would really mean if everyone stopped acting in their own interest and gave away what they’ve earned to those who didn’t earn it. Stuff to be given away would run out real fast.
Skip the heartless Ayn Rand nonsense and look to traditional Christianity. Aquinas makes clear that our obligations go to God first, then to family, then to neighbors, then to country, and only then to "the world," in expanding concentric circles. This has been the way Christians traditionally saw things until the so-called "Reformation."
It's a mistake to dismiss Ayn Rand's views as heartless nonsense. She was absolutely right to point out the evils of altruism—which, when taken to its logical conclusion, leads to the poisonous “defending your own interests is immoral” mindset that Josh describes here.
This also doesn't conflict with traditional Christianity as you describe it. It's in your self-interest to assist your neighbor, for example, and because of your proximity and shared context, you are better able to judge if your assistance has any negative knock-on effects or unintended consequences. This does not hold true for no-boundaries, no-strings-attached assistance provided to random faraway strangers.
I generally agree with you that Cluster B personality disorders are a key part our contemporary problems and that they share characteristics with domestic abuse. I would also add that ideologies play an important role in rationalizing mental disorders and giving the mentally ill a target to take their anger out on.
A lone parent with a mental disorder is very hard on the family, but millions of people with mental disorders that are organized by an ideology is very hard on society. I think that if we can see the close link between ideologies and mental disorders, we have a better chance of becoming a healthy society.
A lot of this goes back to victim status. On one side you have the gimmie gimmie crowd and on the other side are the virtue signalers that want look “cool” claiming the gimmie crowd deserves it.
Yes. Thinly disguised attention seeking disguised as altruism. I find myself asking, “Am I the only one that sees this?” It’s like a protracted phase of trying to get into the in crowd in high school. Their actions are based on conformity to the cult.
Just saw a clip of Louis CK explaining that we need to let as many people in our country as want to come in, so that (I’m paraphrasing) our quality of life and standard of living will go down—because it’s not fair and not right that things should be better here than the crappy places those people are fleeing from.
Agree with your diagnosis of our cluster B culture -- wish I knew how to treat the problem, though certainly awareness (“diagnosis”) is the first step.
Suicidal empathy,in circles young people get their knowledge it is the default norm,like humans wearing clothes or girls/guys having long/short hair,noone notices it as sth weird and noone questions it.On top of that any objection is characterised as facism,malevolence,bigotry etc.Kinda hard to penetrate these brain barriers
Somewhat off topic, but I want to make sure you have seen this video by Andrew Doyle about the demise of “Pride”. I just saw it two minutes ago and it is not only excellent (as is everything Andrew does) but he gives Fred Sargeant his pivotal place in the beginnings of the “gay liberation” movement and shows what happened to him at that Burlington pride event you have shown many times. If you haven’t already seen it, here it is.
They are awfully quick to point out the sacrifices "we" should be making for performative causes, but most of the ones I know are even quicker to make exceptions for themselves. They may end up paying the price for their policies, but the plan always seems to be to prove their virtue by voting to force other people to pay the price.
I remember in 2020 I told my now husband that we are all on the victim side of an abusive relationship with our government. He asked me to explain. I did, although not as well a you have, by giving him examples of actions, behaviors and thoughts from an abusive relationship I was in for more than 15 years. He was knocked a little off guard as understanding set in.
I have a friend here in Melbourne who says that white people shouldn't enter Australia's largest landscape painting competition because Aboriginal people have such a "deep connection to the land." Because, of course, white people could never ever feel any kind of connection to the land. And sure enough the competition is bragging that it received more Aboriginal entries than non-Aboriginal for the first time this year. It's the culmination of DEI, CRT, the "Noble Savage," and white guilt relabeled as "progressive," and I'm over it.
I cannot wrap my head around this mind set. A responsible adult takes care of themselves, their dependents and, to a reasonable degree, their community members in need. When did reason go out the window for so very many?!
I had an argument with one of these people in my own family, about being asked to raise taxes to pay for illegal immigrant shelter and care. I said Americans shouldn't have to pay for services we don't even give our own people. I was told (yelled at really) that the problem was that people just won't vote in their own interests! When pressed this person could not explain to me how exactly that would be in the interest of Americans. Then they changed the subject. I just don't get what the world looks like from inside their heads.
They morally believe it’s their obligation to give to and protect people who are not from their country or race, and will go out their way to insult or belittle a friend over a statement of fact regarding people who aren’t even present to hear it.
Almost makes you think Ayn Rand was on to something. Or Adam Smith. People really need to think through the implications of what it would really mean if everyone stopped acting in their own interest and gave away what they’ve earned to those who didn’t earn it. Stuff to be given away would run out real fast.
Skip the heartless Ayn Rand nonsense and look to traditional Christianity. Aquinas makes clear that our obligations go to God first, then to family, then to neighbors, then to country, and only then to "the world," in expanding concentric circles. This has been the way Christians traditionally saw things until the so-called "Reformation."
It's a mistake to dismiss Ayn Rand's views as heartless nonsense. She was absolutely right to point out the evils of altruism—which, when taken to its logical conclusion, leads to the poisonous “defending your own interests is immoral” mindset that Josh describes here.
This also doesn't conflict with traditional Christianity as you describe it. It's in your self-interest to assist your neighbor, for example, and because of your proximity and shared context, you are better able to judge if your assistance has any negative knock-on effects or unintended consequences. This does not hold true for no-boundaries, no-strings-attached assistance provided to random faraway strangers.
I think she is heartless, but that's not the point; the point is that she's a bad philosopher.
Josh,
I generally agree with you that Cluster B personality disorders are a key part our contemporary problems and that they share characteristics with domestic abuse. I would also add that ideologies play an important role in rationalizing mental disorders and giving the mentally ill a target to take their anger out on.
A lone parent with a mental disorder is very hard on the family, but millions of people with mental disorders that are organized by an ideology is very hard on society. I think that if we can see the close link between ideologies and mental disorders, we have a better chance of becoming a healthy society.
I go into more detail in this article:
https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/radical-ideologies-feast-on-mental
I agree with you. I don't see any distance between our points of view.
"an inversion of truth and reality" is a perfect definition of leftism.
A lot of this goes back to victim status. On one side you have the gimmie gimmie crowd and on the other side are the virtue signalers that want look “cool” claiming the gimmie crowd deserves it.
Yes. Thinly disguised attention seeking disguised as altruism. I find myself asking, “Am I the only one that sees this?” It’s like a protracted phase of trying to get into the in crowd in high school. Their actions are based on conformity to the cult.
Just saw a clip of Louis CK explaining that we need to let as many people in our country as want to come in, so that (I’m paraphrasing) our quality of life and standard of living will go down—because it’s not fair and not right that things should be better here than the crappy places those people are fleeing from.
Are you kidding? What a ridiculous thing to say!
I know—does he even hear himself? I’m sure that thinking of his doesn’t extend to his house and the illegal aliens in his community
What an evil sentiment!
Agree with your diagnosis of our cluster B culture -- wish I knew how to treat the problem, though certainly awareness (“diagnosis”) is the first step.
Suicidal empathy,in circles young people get their knowledge it is the default norm,like humans wearing clothes or girls/guys having long/short hair,noone notices it as sth weird and noone questions it.On top of that any objection is characterised as facism,malevolence,bigotry etc.Kinda hard to penetrate these brain barriers
Somewhat off topic, but I want to make sure you have seen this video by Andrew Doyle about the demise of “Pride”. I just saw it two minutes ago and it is not only excellent (as is everything Andrew does) but he gives Fred Sargeant his pivotal place in the beginnings of the “gay liberation” movement and shows what happened to him at that Burlington pride event you have shown many times. If you haven’t already seen it, here it is.
https://youtu.be/PsXVlj2JRt0?si=Zx4zxuDzHa2HOoP9
They absolutely DO believe it, and strongly.
I know because *I* used to strongly believe it.
They are awfully quick to point out the sacrifices "we" should be making for performative causes, but most of the ones I know are even quicker to make exceptions for themselves. They may end up paying the price for their policies, but the plan always seems to be to prove their virtue by voting to force other people to pay the price.
I remember in 2020 I told my now husband that we are all on the victim side of an abusive relationship with our government. He asked me to explain. I did, although not as well a you have, by giving him examples of actions, behaviors and thoughts from an abusive relationship I was in for more than 15 years. He was knocked a little off guard as understanding set in.
What you say is true, my friend.
They believe this in the way the perpetrator of a murder-suicide believes dying will solve their problems. Only if they take the rest of us with them.
Just Compare and Contrast how Whitish looking Jews are privileged/treated vs White gentiles.
I have a friend here in Melbourne who says that white people shouldn't enter Australia's largest landscape painting competition because Aboriginal people have such a "deep connection to the land." Because, of course, white people could never ever feel any kind of connection to the land. And sure enough the competition is bragging that it received more Aboriginal entries than non-Aboriginal for the first time this year. It's the culmination of DEI, CRT, the "Noble Savage," and white guilt relabeled as "progressive," and I'm over it.