Thank you, Josh. Yours may be the only truthful voice among the others surrounding this person telling them scornfully that they are "overreacting" or that they "imagined" it.
A very high bar for calling police. If you got any other way to go. There are no good police. Every encounter with a cop is going to land you in trouble. You are not a human being to them. They destroy lives as often as is possible.
You shun them and never give them any information if any kind.. anything you may benefit they make 19 times worse for you.
I had to call the police for help once. I told them where I was located in the house (a closet) and that I was unarmed.
They came in under 3 minutes. They were professional, but gentle.
Police don’t know who’s the perpetrator and who’s the victim when they get to your house, though. So they really do make you (the victim) come out with your hands up. It is frightening and humiliating.
Call the police if you have to. Later on, you can request a transcript of your 911 call - also frightening and humiliating. You will hear yourself making excuses and minimizing your situation and asking the police to take it easy on the offender -
- but do everything you can to avoid needing police in the first place. Don’t let it escalate that far. Stop making excuses. Stop minimizing your situation. If it ever looks like this, I am telling you to take your pets and run.
From what I've heard it's much more dangerous if you're a man being physically attacked by a woman; the police will usually side with the woman (Duluth model) even if she is the aggressor. All you can do is flee.
All day long at work I read about prisoners, victims, abusive CO’s. I hear stories of child neglect. I go to meetings and hear people recount the worst degradations. This idea we have of ‘normal’ is a comforting facade. There are millions of people out there not trying, manipulating, torturing. We’ve all probably bumped into one this week.
This was rant-y and unfocused… I don’t think I got my meaning across perfectly, but people suck. Please be careful everyone. Evil people usually seem pretty normal.
You've probably saved someone's life, Josh. Thank you for helping your clients and your readers understand that pretending, hoping, wishing for the best in some circumstances, and especially those you've described, is an open invitation to cause the end of their lives by character disordered friends or relatives.
Good post. Sobering. The part often overlooked is the "talked herself into believing she was overreacting."
Warping one's own reality is very much part of the abuse cycle. The very challenging thing we therapists have to balance is our own overreach when saying things like, "I think you've convinced yourself you're safer than you are," which we often do not do because we have been instructed not to by our supervisors and professors.
Always deference, sometimes to a fault, has become the order of our day. It is usually out of a fear of being accused of "giving advice" or whatever, and behind that is the ever-present subliminal threat of license sancitons or being sued for "malpractice" or "unprofessional conduct" if we make a guess and guess incorrectly. Of course, if we do nothing but reflect and they die, how will that affect our soul's ability to move forward with others?
You're always standing on a ledge, just make sure it's one where you're comfortable articulating why you're standing on it.
I'd think that in such "professional therapy" sessions, dispassionately reciting the relevant facts and statistics to your client, as match his/her own circumstances, but without entreaty, that you'd be in the clear? Do therapists protect themselves by recording their client sessions?
We don't record because it creates another mess of issues related to storage and such. But you're right, reflecting and reframing can certainly have its utility but sometimes urgency is necessary, as is connecting the dots of historic patterns. The issue is coming off as judgmental against the abuser (with whom the abused is usually in love, or at least dedicated to, well beyond any insights we'd give), and because we are averse to being labeled judgmental, we just don't go there. Defense of the abuse is often strong, and often they already have the insights and have "yes-butted" them for a long time anyway.
I suppose this is where AI therapy is gaining traction. If it's indistinguishable from what a human offers, then why pay for a human.
I think the whole culture has been distorted (perversely, and in some cases intentionally) to err on the side of 'tolerance', meaning we all end up tolerating the intolerable.
This essay scared me. Because it's true. I was a lawyer (am a lawyer, retired though) who practiced mostly family law. I would occasionally hear reports from clients that horrified me and it was interesting, when I told them what you're telling people - they would freeze, and before starting to make "oh, I don't think so" comments they would always get this look of recognition on their face. Their conscious mind recognized something their subconscious had been telling them. Yes, we have to tell people what we see. As St. Bernadette said "it is my job to inform, not convince." Honestly though I did try to convince them. Interestingly these were never clients seeking restraining orders - it was family members, not the soon-to-be-ex, they were talking about.
Essential advice. I've heard people say, oh, he doesn't really MEAN it, so many times. The stories you shared are horrifying. You're a good person to do this work.
My niece-in-law, who is now an adult and under the delusion she is a man, has clearly had mental health issues her entire life, including outbursts of hysterical anger. For no good reason that I am aware of, she has intensely disliked me since she was born, and has never responded to me with anything but dirty looks. Recently, her mother (my wife's sister) asked if her "son" (daughter) could spend the night at our house. There was no way I was going to go to sleep and leave myself vulnerable with her on the property, so I insisted on locking our bedroom door. It did not make me popular, but I won't take chances with potentially dangerous people.
Immediately pushing over appropriate boundaries and seeing how far they can go. Next time it may go further. And perhaps another boundary. Josh is right - do not allow in your space - your home is your sacred safe space. Be very aware.
I agree completely, and thanks for the advice. At the time, I initially and vigorously refused to have her here, but then I felt guilty and wimped out. If the situation is ever proposed again, my response will be a firm "no!", and damn the consequences.
Thanks for being honest with people, Josh. Hopefully those people heeded your advice or started on the road to epiphany.
I've had the opposite situation with my stepson (29, complete failure to launch). He keeps trying to create confrontation when my wife and I try to hold him accountable. Lord willing he'll be gone by summer. Nothing like someone pursuing you around the house to keep the argument going.
Thank you for posting that. Thankfully I have not experienced any of that. No wait, I did briefly date someone that when I got the warning signs I broke everything off right away. Talked to the guy's former girlfriend and found out he had been abusive to her! I asked why she continued to see him instead of immediately breaking off with him. She was in denial. I told her I would NEVER have gone out with him if I knew he was abusive and why didn't she tell me? (We all went to the same college and even had a class together.) He was nice to me and never hit me or said abusive things but one day I paid attention to some clues and got out of that BEFORE something happened! I'm pretty good at picking up clues. Then there was a workplace situation - one of the places I worked we had a sexual harasser that was in a higher position than us administrative assistants. He was very slick. I recognized the clues but my co-workers did not. Found out he met his 2nd wife at work by cheating on his first wife. He called his administrative assistant into his office one day - with the door closed. She was fired. NOT for incompetence, it took a few YEARS for me to find out from her directly that he HIT on her and she refused his advances and he fired her! I asked her why she didn't file a lawsuit - she was a single mother with 2 kids and the Fortune 300 company agreed to PAY her salary while she looked for another job for up to 6 months. She got another job in 3 months and continued to get paid from the company (of course she didn't tell them she got another job and they didn't even ask for proof she was looking for another job.) That guy later approached the assistant to the boss of HIS boss (in that case she was single but HE was married). She ended up getting an attorney and lost her job. Unfortunately she had boundary issues so he knew who to pick on. (She also had Herpes so maybe he got payback and got it.) Then he tried to annoy me so I would quit because he didn't want anyone around that was friends with the assistant that filed the lawsuit. (I was the one that TOLD her in private to get an attorney - a high profile one and make a diary of all his calls and emails.) He was tricky. He would travel on company business and call our office then ask to be transferred to his boss's assistant so it did not show as a direct call. (Because why would he have to go over his boss's head all the time?) I knew what he was doing and I just corrected his reports a million times (he kept making changes hoping I would quit - I cheerfully just wasted my time making all the changes.) Unfortunately our boss was transferred to a different state (probably punishment for bringing in the guy that caused the harassment lawsuit - BUT I can say for sure that our boss really didn't know the REAL guy.) No the real problem was that high level executives had to have several interviews with the company psychologist! (The company probably had a contract with him.) And later another TOP executive in Research was harassing HIS secretary). That means at LEAST 2 cases I know of that psychologist FAILED his job by letting in 2 losers that sexually harassed people and caused all kinds of chaos and disruption in the workplace and caused people to have their careers messed up - transfers, loss of jobs. How do I know about the Research executive? I tried to TRANSFER out of the office I was in to another division. I applied and waited for a call to interview. After a few weeks I called the office to ask what the status was. The TEMPORARY assistant said "I don't know if I should tell you what is going on." I said yes you better tell me because I don't have time to waste. Is this a real job or do you already know who is going to fill it? Then she tells me the Executive had a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by his female Assistant who was out on stress leave!!! I said thanks for the information, remove me from anything to do with that position. Yes I was shocked! Almost out of the fire pan and into the fire! The harasser in our office left because the company went through a headhunter and hired a WOMAN to be the new big boss in our section. That cause HIM to quit on his own. I think the company did that on purpose because they wanted him out, the lawsuit was settled with him and he still kept his job. He found out second hand that he didn't get the supervisor job. (When his boss was transferred HE applied for the job, meaning he would be my direct boss.) He was downstairs when someone said "Oh I heard they went with an outside hire so your new boss will be a woman that used to work with Neutron Jack Welsh." He was out of there in no time. And I was happy I bided my time and waited it out until he was gone. Then I left for another company.
Compliments & kudos to you for your strength, wisdom & helping others. You are an inspiration to many people. Thank you for sharing your important work life experiences. Its wonderful you helped others. Some of us may need a person who will listen & support.
I forgot to mention. After our harasser left the company, the 2 other assistants and I had a closed door meeting with the head of Human Resources (HR), psychologist and just us individually (not the 3 assistants in the same meeting - the divide and conquer method). The psychologist said that harasser "was a very sick man" and we were all "suffering from PTSD". He also said the other assistants said they KNEW he had a plan to try to get me to leave the company. (Thanks co-workers, I told you he was not right in the head and you did not volunteer that he was trying to get me to quit but I already figured that out.) You might think, yes, this is what I had been saying to the other assistants and I was right! I read a LOT of psychology books and had basic psychology in high school and a lot of psychology classes in college (Basic Psychology 1A & 1B and special psych classes: Death and Dying, Sex /Relationships, Stress, etc.) SADLY what happened is that now the 3 of were LIABILITIES. That meant the company was afraid we might file a PTSD lawsuit so now they tried to get rid of us!!! I did talk to a lawyer at the time and he said because of my age (37) I still had many working years left and I should NOT file a lawsuit because companies have a way of finding out about lawsuits and then I would find myself UNEMPLOYABLE. I was finishing my B.S. degree, the company had paid my tuition, & my Mom was dying of terminal cancer! I had more on my plate than I could handle. So I sucked it up and went out on interviews (the company gave me paid time off to on interviews during work hours.) I had 3 months to "improve" and they made a checklist of things I should improve on (creating a paper trail). This was AFTER my Mom's funeral 12/10/1997. I had until April 1 (yes, April Fool's Day I'm not kidding) and then time was up. If I didn't meet ALL checklist item (I knew that was a set up) then I would be out. April 1 meeting with supervisor, then HR. They put a contract before me and said I would get unemployment, 3 months severance pay, 3 months health care premiums paid, and 3 months paid career counseling at outside company (resume update, etc.), and leaving the company under "Mutual Agreement". I told them I would take the contract to my attorney to go over it. I asked the attorney to bargain for more money and eliminate the career counseling because I knew how to interview and look for another job - they would not change that. (The contract said once I signed I would NOT be able to sue.) After lawyer consultation, I had a meeting with HR supervisor (female - just stating in case anyone wants to know) and gave her the signed contract and she HUGGED me! (How disgusting - they must have been REAL scared of me filing a lawsuit and now this meant they would not have a lawsuit from me. I wanted to throw up.) She was giddy and acted like I was now her best friend. The only satisfaction I had is she must have been sweating it out for a few weeks until I returned with that signed contract. This is how companies secretly handle things. Lawsuits are public, special contracts are not. So you will NEVER know how many sexual harassers work or worked in a company. The other assistant was sent off on Medical Leave by her doctor for STRESS and she later left the company (I told her while she was on Medical Leave to NOT talk to anyone from work asking work questions as that was against doctor orders and would be considered working as an unpaid consultant.) I also told her to get an attorney AND they could not fire her while she was out on Medical Leave (but I didn't tell her that as soon as she was off Medical Leave they probably would find a way to fire her). The other assistant was older and had worked for the assistant of the top CEO of the company! So that means she knew were "all the bodies were buried" so so they would be very careful with her, but she would still be a liability to the company because the psychologist said we had PTSD. I think they gave her a large settlement contract and she left. The new woman supervisor was there a few years (she might have been hired just as in interim to clean house). Her mother got breast cancer a second time and died from it. A few years ago I looked up the supervisor and she got breast cancer a few years ago and survived, retired, and made a LARGE donation to cancer research at the hospital that treated her. I do not wish cancer on anyone, so don't say Karma. After she canned me in her office behind closed doors on that April 1, I had nothing to lose so I told her exactly how it was dealing with my Mom's cancer and people at work not being very understanding. She was crying when I finished so I guess I got through to her. Even though I was not directly harassed at work, you can see how a chain reaction starts when one person in the office is a harasser and knows how to target their victims and how the rest of us suffer. If it had not been for me having to finish two more classes to graduate and my Mom not dying of cancer, I would have LEFT that place as soon as my good boss was transferred and after I got information on the harasser.
The precursor to this is destroying things in the house, especially sentimental things - a wedding photo; a special book; an outfit. That’s practice for putting hands on you.
I wanted to add to this (please forgive me for using your comment as a jumping off point):
That sort of thing is soul murder. It's a form of torture and can go on for decades, and even drive people insane. This doesn't get talked about nearly often enough. Worst case scenario of this is when partners covertly but sadistically abuse/threaten children, pets, or elderly relatives as a way to torture their actual target psychologically (who remains physically unharmed therefore 'no case' legally). And these are the cases where Josh's advice applies just as much, but are often almost impossible to just get up and leave, because the danger to life of the abused dependants is so high if the psychological target leaves.
Can sometimes be worse than the physical stuff (for one's self) as there's no recognition from authorities, therefore no protection and no justice possible for the victims - leaves the person a shell of themselves but with the body still walking around so no criminal charges possible.
I used to work in a veterinary ER (I'm not a vet), and we treated several cats that appeared to have been intentionally injured. One of the cats came in for a broken leg, then later had been "accidentally stepped on", resulting in broken ribs. The last visit was in the middle of the night, and we ended up having to call the cops when the irate boyfriend showed up in the parking lot, screaming that he'd do to the client what he had done to the cat. I hope she finally got the message.
Another lady came from 2 hours away with her horribly injured cat. We asked why she didn't stop at a closer ER. Answer: she didn't want her boyfriend to find her and finish off the cat. Well, he'd placed a tracker on her car and showed up anyway. We had the building locked down due to irrational panic over a manmade virus, so we were able to get the cops to the building before he could get in, but it was pretty intense.
Stop gaslighting yourselves; the world will do enough of that for you. Listen to people who haven't steered you wrong in the past. Heed those whom you know have your best interest at heart, and above all, listen to your instincts.
Not a vet but to your point. I used to go outside and sit on the porch most nights and I heard one of our new across the street neighbors (the young man) shouting and yelling and carrying on. I heard one of their dogs start barking, then him yell again, then the sounds of a dog yelping repeatedly. I didn't call the cops as where I live, cops aren't able according to state laws (and our tiny prison) to really do anything. It's notable the young woman's mother came to our house to tell us they had broken up and there was a restraining order on the boyfriend for domestic abuse. She told us to watch out for his car.
Maybe 2 weeks later I was out back with my toddler son and heard a commotion across the street. I looked over the fence and saw the girl screaming and the boy trying to push his way in. I started screaming and calling him a MF'r and told him I was calling the cops. He ran away and I went over and got the girl to my house. The cops came over and it turned out he had got into the house, stole her phone, and shoved and locked her in the bathroom where he was threatening her and planning to abuse her. She had somehow tricked him into letting down his guard and then ran for the door and began screaming for help when he began pushing her back inside (which is when I first heard what was going on). He ended up getting arrested and finally sent to jail for 7 years after that (he went to the house the day he got out of county jail for 30 days for violating the RO). Both of her parents came to my house to thank me for saving her life--they truly thought he would have killed her. And to think, my first warning sign of him was when I knew he had abused the dog.
There are danger signs before the worst happens. With this guy (https://x.com/TRIGGERHAPPYV1/status/1775644592718721426), he tortured and killed animals, earning him the nickname of "cat killer," and his parents found a "serial-killer kit" in his backpack a few months before the incident linked above.
"Get rid of the kit or we'll call the police," they said, as utter morons.
He was a born psychopath, but they refused to see how bad he could get.
Excellent Josh. Very few people are willing to be honest for others even when the others can’t see it for themselves. You can be honest and forthright. If they are ready they will hear it. Just as you say you can help them come to their conclusions because so many have candy coated and ignored the signs which is gaslighting the victim all over again. You are showing them a reality that they may have lost touch with after being abused and gaslit with a false reality and false self. Such difficult discernment and you have been there and know how to be the truth / a light for them to see the difference and to focus on that like a life ring in the ocean. 🙏🏼❤️
Thank you, Josh. Yours may be the only truthful voice among the others surrounding this person telling them scornfully that they are "overreacting" or that they "imagined" it.
A very high bar for calling police. If you got any other way to go. There are no good police. Every encounter with a cop is going to land you in trouble. You are not a human being to them. They destroy lives as often as is possible.
You shun them and never give them any information if any kind.. anything you may benefit they make 19 times worse for you.
Often true
But if the alternative is death...
I had to call the police for help once. I told them where I was located in the house (a closet) and that I was unarmed.
They came in under 3 minutes. They were professional, but gentle.
Police don’t know who’s the perpetrator and who’s the victim when they get to your house, though. So they really do make you (the victim) come out with your hands up. It is frightening and humiliating.
Call the police if you have to. Later on, you can request a transcript of your 911 call - also frightening and humiliating. You will hear yourself making excuses and minimizing your situation and asking the police to take it easy on the offender -
- but do everything you can to avoid needing police in the first place. Don’t let it escalate that far. Stop making excuses. Stop minimizing your situation. If it ever looks like this, I am telling you to take your pets and run.
From what I've heard it's much more dangerous if you're a man being physically attacked by a woman; the police will usually side with the woman (Duluth model) even if she is the aggressor. All you can do is flee.
Well done Josh!!
All day long at work I read about prisoners, victims, abusive CO’s. I hear stories of child neglect. I go to meetings and hear people recount the worst degradations. This idea we have of ‘normal’ is a comforting facade. There are millions of people out there not trying, manipulating, torturing. We’ve all probably bumped into one this week.
This was rant-y and unfocused… I don’t think I got my meaning across perfectly, but people suck. Please be careful everyone. Evil people usually seem pretty normal.
https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/people-suck?
I really liked that, James.
You've probably saved someone's life, Josh. Thank you for helping your clients and your readers understand that pretending, hoping, wishing for the best in some circumstances, and especially those you've described, is an open invitation to cause the end of their lives by character disordered friends or relatives.
Good post. Sobering. The part often overlooked is the "talked herself into believing she was overreacting."
Warping one's own reality is very much part of the abuse cycle. The very challenging thing we therapists have to balance is our own overreach when saying things like, "I think you've convinced yourself you're safer than you are," which we often do not do because we have been instructed not to by our supervisors and professors.
Always deference, sometimes to a fault, has become the order of our day. It is usually out of a fear of being accused of "giving advice" or whatever, and behind that is the ever-present subliminal threat of license sancitons or being sued for "malpractice" or "unprofessional conduct" if we make a guess and guess incorrectly. Of course, if we do nothing but reflect and they die, how will that affect our soul's ability to move forward with others?
You're always standing on a ledge, just make sure it's one where you're comfortable articulating why you're standing on it.
I'd think that in such "professional therapy" sessions, dispassionately reciting the relevant facts and statistics to your client, as match his/her own circumstances, but without entreaty, that you'd be in the clear? Do therapists protect themselves by recording their client sessions?
We don't record because it creates another mess of issues related to storage and such. But you're right, reflecting and reframing can certainly have its utility but sometimes urgency is necessary, as is connecting the dots of historic patterns. The issue is coming off as judgmental against the abuser (with whom the abused is usually in love, or at least dedicated to, well beyond any insights we'd give), and because we are averse to being labeled judgmental, we just don't go there. Defense of the abuse is often strong, and often they already have the insights and have "yes-butted" them for a long time anyway.
I suppose this is where AI therapy is gaining traction. If it's indistinguishable from what a human offers, then why pay for a human.
I think the whole culture has been distorted (perversely, and in some cases intentionally) to err on the side of 'tolerance', meaning we all end up tolerating the intolerable.
💯
This essay scared me. Because it's true. I was a lawyer (am a lawyer, retired though) who practiced mostly family law. I would occasionally hear reports from clients that horrified me and it was interesting, when I told them what you're telling people - they would freeze, and before starting to make "oh, I don't think so" comments they would always get this look of recognition on their face. Their conscious mind recognized something their subconscious had been telling them. Yes, we have to tell people what we see. As St. Bernadette said "it is my job to inform, not convince." Honestly though I did try to convince them. Interestingly these were never clients seeking restraining orders - it was family members, not the soon-to-be-ex, they were talking about.
Like that poor man in NY murdered by his older brother - all over the papers this morning.
Essential advice. I've heard people say, oh, he doesn't really MEAN it, so many times. The stories you shared are horrifying. You're a good person to do this work.
My niece-in-law, who is now an adult and under the delusion she is a man, has clearly had mental health issues her entire life, including outbursts of hysterical anger. For no good reason that I am aware of, she has intensely disliked me since she was born, and has never responded to me with anything but dirty looks. Recently, her mother (my wife's sister) asked if her "son" (daughter) could spend the night at our house. There was no way I was going to go to sleep and leave myself vulnerable with her on the property, so I insisted on locking our bedroom door. It did not make me popular, but I won't take chances with potentially dangerous people.
I’m going to overstep my bounds a little; I hope you’ll forgive.
You never should have allowed that woman in your house under any circumstances. Lock your bedroom door? Cary.
Immediately pushing over appropriate boundaries and seeing how far they can go. Next time it may go further. And perhaps another boundary. Josh is right - do not allow in your space - your home is your sacred safe space. Be very aware.
I agree completely, and thanks for the advice. At the time, I initially and vigorously refused to have her here, but then I felt guilty and wimped out. If the situation is ever proposed again, my response will be a firm "no!", and damn the consequences.
Thanks for being honest with people, Josh. Hopefully those people heeded your advice or started on the road to epiphany.
I've had the opposite situation with my stepson (29, complete failure to launch). He keeps trying to create confrontation when my wife and I try to hold him accountable. Lord willing he'll be gone by summer. Nothing like someone pursuing you around the house to keep the argument going.
Thank you for posting that. Thankfully I have not experienced any of that. No wait, I did briefly date someone that when I got the warning signs I broke everything off right away. Talked to the guy's former girlfriend and found out he had been abusive to her! I asked why she continued to see him instead of immediately breaking off with him. She was in denial. I told her I would NEVER have gone out with him if I knew he was abusive and why didn't she tell me? (We all went to the same college and even had a class together.) He was nice to me and never hit me or said abusive things but one day I paid attention to some clues and got out of that BEFORE something happened! I'm pretty good at picking up clues. Then there was a workplace situation - one of the places I worked we had a sexual harasser that was in a higher position than us administrative assistants. He was very slick. I recognized the clues but my co-workers did not. Found out he met his 2nd wife at work by cheating on his first wife. He called his administrative assistant into his office one day - with the door closed. She was fired. NOT for incompetence, it took a few YEARS for me to find out from her directly that he HIT on her and she refused his advances and he fired her! I asked her why she didn't file a lawsuit - she was a single mother with 2 kids and the Fortune 300 company agreed to PAY her salary while she looked for another job for up to 6 months. She got another job in 3 months and continued to get paid from the company (of course she didn't tell them she got another job and they didn't even ask for proof she was looking for another job.) That guy later approached the assistant to the boss of HIS boss (in that case she was single but HE was married). She ended up getting an attorney and lost her job. Unfortunately she had boundary issues so he knew who to pick on. (She also had Herpes so maybe he got payback and got it.) Then he tried to annoy me so I would quit because he didn't want anyone around that was friends with the assistant that filed the lawsuit. (I was the one that TOLD her in private to get an attorney - a high profile one and make a diary of all his calls and emails.) He was tricky. He would travel on company business and call our office then ask to be transferred to his boss's assistant so it did not show as a direct call. (Because why would he have to go over his boss's head all the time?) I knew what he was doing and I just corrected his reports a million times (he kept making changes hoping I would quit - I cheerfully just wasted my time making all the changes.) Unfortunately our boss was transferred to a different state (probably punishment for bringing in the guy that caused the harassment lawsuit - BUT I can say for sure that our boss really didn't know the REAL guy.) No the real problem was that high level executives had to have several interviews with the company psychologist! (The company probably had a contract with him.) And later another TOP executive in Research was harassing HIS secretary). That means at LEAST 2 cases I know of that psychologist FAILED his job by letting in 2 losers that sexually harassed people and caused all kinds of chaos and disruption in the workplace and caused people to have their careers messed up - transfers, loss of jobs. How do I know about the Research executive? I tried to TRANSFER out of the office I was in to another division. I applied and waited for a call to interview. After a few weeks I called the office to ask what the status was. The TEMPORARY assistant said "I don't know if I should tell you what is going on." I said yes you better tell me because I don't have time to waste. Is this a real job or do you already know who is going to fill it? Then she tells me the Executive had a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by his female Assistant who was out on stress leave!!! I said thanks for the information, remove me from anything to do with that position. Yes I was shocked! Almost out of the fire pan and into the fire! The harasser in our office left because the company went through a headhunter and hired a WOMAN to be the new big boss in our section. That cause HIM to quit on his own. I think the company did that on purpose because they wanted him out, the lawsuit was settled with him and he still kept his job. He found out second hand that he didn't get the supervisor job. (When his boss was transferred HE applied for the job, meaning he would be my direct boss.) He was downstairs when someone said "Oh I heard they went with an outside hire so your new boss will be a woman that used to work with Neutron Jack Welsh." He was out of there in no time. And I was happy I bided my time and waited it out until he was gone. Then I left for another company.
Compliments & kudos to you for your strength, wisdom & helping others. You are an inspiration to many people. Thank you for sharing your important work life experiences. Its wonderful you helped others. Some of us may need a person who will listen & support.
I forgot to mention. After our harasser left the company, the 2 other assistants and I had a closed door meeting with the head of Human Resources (HR), psychologist and just us individually (not the 3 assistants in the same meeting - the divide and conquer method). The psychologist said that harasser "was a very sick man" and we were all "suffering from PTSD". He also said the other assistants said they KNEW he had a plan to try to get me to leave the company. (Thanks co-workers, I told you he was not right in the head and you did not volunteer that he was trying to get me to quit but I already figured that out.) You might think, yes, this is what I had been saying to the other assistants and I was right! I read a LOT of psychology books and had basic psychology in high school and a lot of psychology classes in college (Basic Psychology 1A & 1B and special psych classes: Death and Dying, Sex /Relationships, Stress, etc.) SADLY what happened is that now the 3 of were LIABILITIES. That meant the company was afraid we might file a PTSD lawsuit so now they tried to get rid of us!!! I did talk to a lawyer at the time and he said because of my age (37) I still had many working years left and I should NOT file a lawsuit because companies have a way of finding out about lawsuits and then I would find myself UNEMPLOYABLE. I was finishing my B.S. degree, the company had paid my tuition, & my Mom was dying of terminal cancer! I had more on my plate than I could handle. So I sucked it up and went out on interviews (the company gave me paid time off to on interviews during work hours.) I had 3 months to "improve" and they made a checklist of things I should improve on (creating a paper trail). This was AFTER my Mom's funeral 12/10/1997. I had until April 1 (yes, April Fool's Day I'm not kidding) and then time was up. If I didn't meet ALL checklist item (I knew that was a set up) then I would be out. April 1 meeting with supervisor, then HR. They put a contract before me and said I would get unemployment, 3 months severance pay, 3 months health care premiums paid, and 3 months paid career counseling at outside company (resume update, etc.), and leaving the company under "Mutual Agreement". I told them I would take the contract to my attorney to go over it. I asked the attorney to bargain for more money and eliminate the career counseling because I knew how to interview and look for another job - they would not change that. (The contract said once I signed I would NOT be able to sue.) After lawyer consultation, I had a meeting with HR supervisor (female - just stating in case anyone wants to know) and gave her the signed contract and she HUGGED me! (How disgusting - they must have been REAL scared of me filing a lawsuit and now this meant they would not have a lawsuit from me. I wanted to throw up.) She was giddy and acted like I was now her best friend. The only satisfaction I had is she must have been sweating it out for a few weeks until I returned with that signed contract. This is how companies secretly handle things. Lawsuits are public, special contracts are not. So you will NEVER know how many sexual harassers work or worked in a company. The other assistant was sent off on Medical Leave by her doctor for STRESS and she later left the company (I told her while she was on Medical Leave to NOT talk to anyone from work asking work questions as that was against doctor orders and would be considered working as an unpaid consultant.) I also told her to get an attorney AND they could not fire her while she was out on Medical Leave (but I didn't tell her that as soon as she was off Medical Leave they probably would find a way to fire her). The other assistant was older and had worked for the assistant of the top CEO of the company! So that means she knew were "all the bodies were buried" so so they would be very careful with her, but she would still be a liability to the company because the psychologist said we had PTSD. I think they gave her a large settlement contract and she left. The new woman supervisor was there a few years (she might have been hired just as in interim to clean house). Her mother got breast cancer a second time and died from it. A few years ago I looked up the supervisor and she got breast cancer a few years ago and survived, retired, and made a LARGE donation to cancer research at the hospital that treated her. I do not wish cancer on anyone, so don't say Karma. After she canned me in her office behind closed doors on that April 1, I had nothing to lose so I told her exactly how it was dealing with my Mom's cancer and people at work not being very understanding. She was crying when I finished so I guess I got through to her. Even though I was not directly harassed at work, you can see how a chain reaction starts when one person in the office is a harasser and knows how to target their victims and how the rest of us suffer. If it had not been for me having to finish two more classes to graduate and my Mom not dying of cancer, I would have LEFT that place as soon as my good boss was transferred and after I got information on the harasser.
It's disgusting what you endured in the corporate world.
Heartbreaking this all happened while your Mom had breast cancer, too, & not doing well.
Losing your Mim is like losing a body part & safety net, imo. I lost my Mom 8 years ago, miss her more every day.
Can not imagine how you survived all this at such a young age. Hope you had siblings or aunts & uncles to help.
Absolutely.
The precursor to this is destroying things in the house, especially sentimental things - a wedding photo; a special book; an outfit. That’s practice for putting hands on you.
^Absolutely this^
I wanted to add to this (please forgive me for using your comment as a jumping off point):
That sort of thing is soul murder. It's a form of torture and can go on for decades, and even drive people insane. This doesn't get talked about nearly often enough. Worst case scenario of this is when partners covertly but sadistically abuse/threaten children, pets, or elderly relatives as a way to torture their actual target psychologically (who remains physically unharmed therefore 'no case' legally). And these are the cases where Josh's advice applies just as much, but are often almost impossible to just get up and leave, because the danger to life of the abused dependants is so high if the psychological target leaves.
Can sometimes be worse than the physical stuff (for one's self) as there's no recognition from authorities, therefore no protection and no justice possible for the victims - leaves the person a shell of themselves but with the body still walking around so no criminal charges possible.
Perfectly put. Thank you.
“You won’t like what I’ll have to do if you don’t give me what I want. Neither will your family, I guess.”
Pets, too.
I used to work in a veterinary ER (I'm not a vet), and we treated several cats that appeared to have been intentionally injured. One of the cats came in for a broken leg, then later had been "accidentally stepped on", resulting in broken ribs. The last visit was in the middle of the night, and we ended up having to call the cops when the irate boyfriend showed up in the parking lot, screaming that he'd do to the client what he had done to the cat. I hope she finally got the message.
Another lady came from 2 hours away with her horribly injured cat. We asked why she didn't stop at a closer ER. Answer: she didn't want her boyfriend to find her and finish off the cat. Well, he'd placed a tracker on her car and showed up anyway. We had the building locked down due to irrational panic over a manmade virus, so we were able to get the cops to the building before he could get in, but it was pretty intense.
Stop gaslighting yourselves; the world will do enough of that for you. Listen to people who haven't steered you wrong in the past. Heed those whom you know have your best interest at heart, and above all, listen to your instincts.
Not a vet but to your point. I used to go outside and sit on the porch most nights and I heard one of our new across the street neighbors (the young man) shouting and yelling and carrying on. I heard one of their dogs start barking, then him yell again, then the sounds of a dog yelping repeatedly. I didn't call the cops as where I live, cops aren't able according to state laws (and our tiny prison) to really do anything. It's notable the young woman's mother came to our house to tell us they had broken up and there was a restraining order on the boyfriend for domestic abuse. She told us to watch out for his car.
Maybe 2 weeks later I was out back with my toddler son and heard a commotion across the street. I looked over the fence and saw the girl screaming and the boy trying to push his way in. I started screaming and calling him a MF'r and told him I was calling the cops. He ran away and I went over and got the girl to my house. The cops came over and it turned out he had got into the house, stole her phone, and shoved and locked her in the bathroom where he was threatening her and planning to abuse her. She had somehow tricked him into letting down his guard and then ran for the door and began screaming for help when he began pushing her back inside (which is when I first heard what was going on). He ended up getting arrested and finally sent to jail for 7 years after that (he went to the house the day he got out of county jail for 30 days for violating the RO). Both of her parents came to my house to thank me for saving her life--they truly thought he would have killed her. And to think, my first warning sign of him was when I knew he had abused the dog.
They hurt the pet to hurt you, like how divorcing parents will use kids to hurt the ex. Evil.
Good analogy.
There are danger signs before the worst happens. With this guy (https://x.com/TRIGGERHAPPYV1/status/1775644592718721426), he tortured and killed animals, earning him the nickname of "cat killer," and his parents found a "serial-killer kit" in his backpack a few months before the incident linked above.
"Get rid of the kit or we'll call the police," they said, as utter morons.
He was a born psychopath, but they refused to see how bad he could get.
Excellent Josh. Very few people are willing to be honest for others even when the others can’t see it for themselves. You can be honest and forthright. If they are ready they will hear it. Just as you say you can help them come to their conclusions because so many have candy coated and ignored the signs which is gaslighting the victim all over again. You are showing them a reality that they may have lost touch with after being abused and gaslit with a false reality and false self. Such difficult discernment and you have been there and know how to be the truth / a light for them to see the difference and to focus on that like a life ring in the ocean. 🙏🏼❤️
Ooof, my heart goes out to these people.