I was just commenting this morning to my wife how seemingly easy both the press & Congress have treated Obiden & his obvious cognitive decline as opposed to how Reagan was treated.
I too feel as if so where along the line a channel was switched and this is the “new show”.
It's popping up for me with regard to time. I keep noticing the date and time and getting angry. It feels like it should be Saturday morning. How in the fuck is it already lunchtime on Tuesday? What's going on? Also my muscle memory is good enough not to be a danger with this but it's happening to me while driving too, which is scary. Am I really not at home in my bed? Really? Luckily I have hands-free dialing and can talk while driving, which helps a lot. Blech. Blech on it all.
Yes, I'm glad you brought this up. The same thing is happening to me. I can't remember what day it is, I can't remember if I've done a task or only thought I did, or if I dreamed it.
If you still have that dry erase easel and markers I gave you, try that. I am finding that very helpful. I make a list and erase things as I do them. I take a picture of the list first thing before I start doing things. Doesn't do anything to help me stop being angry that the fairies stole three days (it IS Saturday, goddamnit...) but it's clarifying. Sigh.
I made myself do this today, only with paper and pen, striking through each task as I complete them. My to-do list is relatively short, but I’ve been so unnerved by all the propaganda lately that I can’t count on my short-term memory.
I have been a daily "to do" list maker for all of my adult life. But it hasn't stopped what Holly and Josh just described: the weird "out of time" experience, where it's oddly ten days since I came back from NH, and I would have guessed maybe 3 or 4. I figured it was my age (I'm 58), because everybody says time goes by faster as you get older. Now I am not sure what it is.
My new ADHD tool could help: I have a large-ish square notepad, and the night before I write (in pink permanent marker) the day of the week, month, date, followed by "now do this" in all caps. Then I add just the next 2 or so tasks with check boxes.
I pay a lot of attention to my dreams, so I'm having the same sort of experience. Last night I dreamed of two glass doors: The first had a shutter that blocked my view of what was on the other side; the second was transparent and the sun was coming in brightly - *too* brightly. In the dream, I forced myself to open the second door, even though the light hurt my eyes and the handle was burning hot.
You just reminded me... Sometimes when I drive I get the feeling that the world is moving towards me rather than me moving forward in the world. It feels like a game or movie happening around me. I guess that might me a sign of derealization as well as what I wrote in my other comment.
I am wondering how many of us feeling this derealuzation are anti-VAXers too? I was trying to make sense three years ago why so many people couldn’t see the Covid Scam-Demic for what it was. I came to learn that most of the people I knew who could see what was going on had their internal radar up because they lived that way their whole life (cPTSD symptom or gift depending on your perspective).
Heightened perception of threats (internal radar) out of necessity in childhood = superpower in our Brave New World. I’m grateful for it even if I have to do mental gymnastics to deal with derealization occasionally.
P.S ashwaganda supplements help calm cortisol spikes and dampen derealization.
This is a fascinating insight, wow! Thank you for sharing it. I've always wondered at the thought process of those who reluctantly rolled up their sleeves. More than one person I know A) assumed I didn't get it for some reason and B) told me defensively that they had, they weren't gonna get more, and 'we're all gonna die of something'.
Michi, I knew I wasn't that much smarter than my friends, but I couldn't believe what THEY believed about the scamdemic. I kept thinking there must be a reason why I heard every lie like if was being yelled into a bullhorn, until I realized you're right, I always had to read my father's ill intent with many things - for instance, I'm the 3rd, he was Jr, so back in the day he withdrew (stole) 2 grand from my college loan account, and I had to drop out of Penn State later that day. My father was a better liar than Fauci et al, so I saw it clearly but I couldn't make my friends see they were being played, partly cuz they grew up in Rockwell paintings.
Agreed- both on the anti-vaxer take and on the ashwagandha recommendation! Rhodelia root is another good adaptogen for living through super high stress.
Maybe that cohort of people have defenses that helped them but I’ve lived a pretty awesome life and I know a bunch of other people who have too and didnt buy into it. I think, while there are a lot of different groups who wouldnt buy into it, the biggest one is probably just people that are strong enough to recognize that there can be evil in the world, that individuals they know and individuals who are in power can be evil. That “nice” people can be evil and that good and nice are not the same thing. People with horrible trauma can understand this, because they have been bludgeoned with that truth until they have psychological scars, but one needn’t necessarily go through that to understand that reality.
Indeed, probably the most vociferous supporters of it seem to be probably sufferers of some sort of deep psychological trauma as well, and their defense is to not question what the herd is doing and saying, ever.
I totally get it. Add to it a sense of looking through a screen door and you nailed my experience. Besides all the weirdness in the news I am getting gaslit at work too. They are finding all these age related reasons not to promote me, then hiring less qualified younger people. Just tell the truth dammit! It is so disorienting.
I've been thinking I have reality dysphoria for a few years now. Not in the "profound sense of sadness" way, but in the 'mistrusting most of what I was taught, and the majority of what I'm told' way.' Just had a chat with a tradesman, he said something to the effect of, 'I'm human, just like you!' to which I replied, 'did you just assume my species??' We laughed. Then we stopped. This was in front of the house of a couple of transidentified men I'm neighborly with. My other non-binary neighbor on the block (we were friendly until I got her pronouns wrong) killed herself last year. This year, the flags are proliferating at a statistically impossible rate. Thanks for the space to vent, I'm sorry things are as they are. But at least Nick and I could laugh at it for a moment.
It's nice to have a moment of normalcy like that with another human (or so he SAYS.) I am picturing now what Josh mentioned earlier, though: imagining him like David Sutherland at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, arm outstretched and pointing at you, mouth open and letting out that God awful screech. * shudder *
Whoa - what? I missed the reference, but that sounds scary! I typically avoid gory horror - anything other than campy, really. Is this a movie not to be missed?
You had every right to laugh, so don’t ever ever forget that. You really live in difficult place. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. I would never want to live there.
I moved to a red state. I saw one half-and-half weirdo at a store but nothing besides that thank God. I have very decent neighbors who are not confused about what sex they are.
We moved to a deep red state a year ago and it's made a big difference. I loved where I lived in Cali (small, sweet town) but I don't think I realized how on edge I was until we left.
I’ve experienced a lot of the same things in life that you’ve talked about on your show, Josh, and live quite close to Vermont; I relate to you and support you. There have been some very dramatic War With Eastasia moments since March 2020. I dare say you’re feeling the strain (I mean this nicely). It’s dark, and it must be all the harder after losing that job. I’m delighted to have you with us in the teetotal club; that counts for a lot. As for derealization, try reading books written before 1960 or 1900, if you don’t already; it keeps you grounded in what came before all this. That’s all I can say.
I actually want to cry when I watch older movies. Just to see males looking like men and females like women. Who knew that would go away? I was also watching an older movie a while ago where a sleazy boss smacked his secretary on the ass with a leer on his face. I actually thought, I'd go back to that time in a heartbeat. At least we knew what was going on with "that." (By the way, I also quit alcohol a couple years ago. We need our wits about us as we descend into this madness.)
Yeah I’m reading The Bell Jar right now and feel that way. Sylvia Plath’s protagonist is all very moody and emo, but I envy her living in the world of 1953. People exchange phone numbers and call each, write letters, go on dates and to parties, read poetry aloud, seduce each other and discover sex the normal way even as magazines promote chastity. It sounds wonderful even if I would have been a repressed gay.
That's a blast from the past. I read it a long time ago. I'd rather have people behaving badly as long as everybody knows it's bad. I think that makes sense? I prefer that over people seemingly under a spell, believing people can change their sex, or that kids can be trusted about anything they say they want as being something they should get.
I got into a particular soap opera because I was so bummed out on the trans insanity back in 2020. And yes, it is quite refreshing to see men acting like men and women acting like women!
Susan, I was reading a book called “Wolfen” it was from the 80s and the male partner was allowed to say a lot of “sexist”/TRUE things to the female, and I was furious because they ruined free speech and a man cannot even tell a woman she’s doing the wrong thing even if she screwing up everything. It was killing me.
Women are 17 times more depression medicine then they were in the 50s and women’s alcoholism has doubled just in the last three years since Covid. God bless you you were able to get away with it. It’s not easy
Everything has been ruined by modern culture, frankly. As you pointed out, the relationship between the sexes is abnormal, as is the interaction between races --- made far worse since we've had a black president. Go figure.
The less time online the better, I find, especially avoiding X and the msm. I've rediscovered reading, and it is keeping me sane. I recently read "The Catcher in the Rye." It made me remember what life was like before cell phones, the now constant imposing of other realities, lack of constant surveillance, no confusion about what used to be a shared, rich reality. The ordinary was so extraordinary now.
I identify with all of this! March 2020 was when everything went off kilter for me too, and I'm trying to come to terms ever since with living in a mad world. I knocked the booze on the head in June 2021: without that magic potion that made everything (temporarily) feel so great I have to live with myself now, all the time. It's not easy but it's much, much better this way. I don't watch contemporary TV or films. Just can't stand them. I've built up a large DVD collection, you can pick them up cheaply now, and I watch old films and TV series that way. Nothing post 2015 but mostly much older than that. British TV from the seventies always makes me happy, quite why I don't know, it's certainly not the production values. Maybe a strange nostalgia for the world that existed just before my birth (I'm a very late Gen X Brit). Old books. It doesn't have to be nineteenth century but it helps. This great turning away from contemporary culture seems quite common from what I read online, but I suspect most people out there are still mainlining Netflix?
I have had some waves of this happen since I was a child. It is like a feeling that I am some spirit looking into a strange "reality" that I don't quite belong to. But it only happens for a few seconds when it happens.
I do think seeing people move on from the assassination attempt can do this. I think people have had enough trauma [like 9/11 and January 6th (whether the treatment of inmates or those who believe it was an insurrection) and COVID lockdowns and fearporn] that this assassination attempt was too much for them to handle and they are disassociating from it by downplaying it.
I also have a tendency to disassociate, which feels similar but more like an old coping mechanism than the other.
This probably isn't the same, but I have not been able to talk to any friends for the past few weeks because they have all gone coo-coo for Kamala. If they do text and say "what are you doing" I say "sitting home watching the world swirl around me" but they have no idea what I'm talking about.
I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe. I'm avoiding everyone.
The only person who makes sense to me in my network is my 18 year old grandson.
Liza, I know what you mean. I have given up on trying to have constructive political discussions with nearly anyone outside of my household because they’re too busy mainlining MSNBC to see the world as it really is.
I feel that if I were frank with my friends about my gut feeling re Kamala, I would have no friends at all.luckily both my sons and my daughter are not all worshipping her! This instant love affair with her seems to have happened so quickly, because everyone was desperate for a “ savior”, and without much thinking she was that savior! Nobody really wants to look at the downsides of the things she has done that are not so savory (sic)! No women look at her stand on the regressive trans ideology she supports 100%! Too bad! Hero worship is not real healthy if the hero or heroine is a paper one .
Yes! The Gen Z young men. I have several in my life, including my sons. They are a breath of fresh air. Sort of insane and impulsive (what do you expect?) but among the only ones who see through things right now.
Ditto- feeling the same way, avoiding hangout with my friends because of the politics and I just can’t listen anymore. I have resigned myself to avoiding TV, reading classics, and spending time with my pre-teen son when not working. Youth is a blessing. Best way to forget all of the BS is to listen to 12 and 13 year old kids talk about video games and where they will go biking next.
You might want to develop a new set of friends. I have difficulty conversing or even being around people who don’t get it, ie recognize patterns that are happening which reveal what is going on in our universe. It is mind boggling how selectively dense people are. Take the Olympic opening, for instance. Before reading any story about it, seeing only the photo of the drag-clad weirdos around the table, I knew it was a mockery of the Last Supper. Then came the denial that it had anything to do with it-don’t believe what you see-. It does not take genius to see it, just trust your own eyes.
I can really identify with your comment. I am (or used to be) a really fun filled person, enjoying dancing, music, socialising etc and now, I really am very negative. I can feel it happening but can’t stop it. I have ‘friends’ and family that believe the government did the best they could during covid and the vax saved millions of lives. They believe in wearing masks and getting their children vaccinated and that buying an electric car will save the planet 🤡 I can’t have fun while all this crazy goes on around me! I am utterly drowning in stupid 🤦♀️
I feel very destabilized by exactly what you describe. Like every day I am asking myself if I am the bad person for not feeling how the media describes how I should feel or if “friends” tell me how excited they are about Kamala… Friends that previously did not say: “I am only voting for Biden because he has a solid VP who is great and accomplishes a lot” or “I am so happy Biden picked Kamala as the VP, her work is great.”
No everyone was silent about her. Always.
Now she is the next political wonder that everyone just wants to be president. She has not even said or done anything fundamental since the nomination. Yet, everyone is swooning like moths finding a light in the dark. Even if the light will kill them.
I feel like my reality is shifting. Like my losing eyes are purposefully betraying me and I just need to be educated.
This feels exactly like the emotional manipulation I experienced my first marriage.
I start the day by walking in the woods and gardening. Literally being grounded is a good antidote to being swept away by events over which we have no control.
This is the answer. I used to play a lot of Skyrim and then I would go for a walk and want to pull out my bow and shoot the squirrels and bunnies. And think “wow, the graphics are so good.” And I thought man, I need to quit playing video games. It’s messing with my mind.
Josh, I don't think I have this malady you describe but since the Biden presidency many things seem unreal. Top of the list: I never realized how one person as president could destroy so much of this country by open borders and none of the other branches of Govt can intervene. What happened to the fabled "Checks and Balances" we all learned about in grade school? Congress does nothing, the Supreme Court does nothing. Who knew it was so easy for one person to ruin the USA as we know it? That seems unreal because it IS unreal. This isn't supposed to happen but it's happening with no end in sight. Now I hear there's a rise in illegal crossings at the northern border.
Things seem unmoored, nothing is secured. COVID ushered in a pandemic that nobody saw since 1918. That wasn't supposed to happen either. People just don't mention it because they don't want to be treated like a nut case. I suspect the symptoms you describe are widespread. You are one of the brave few who talks about it.
Bob, I remember in Biden's first year his handlers cancelled all of Trump's exec orders that were shutting down illegal immigration, and Tom Cotton was almost yelling on a Fox News show, saying "Biden is opening the border on purpose!! This invasion is being done on purpose!" and I was freaked out: this was a US Senator feeling powerless (he wasn't pulling a Graham, he was truly calling out their lies). When the media lies like they lie, it takes average US citizens years to see the real truth, then more years to fix the problem by (hopefully soon) going back to Trump's migrant policies.
The immigration issue is the one that is most alarming to me. I didn't understand it at all until somebody mentioned the Cloward-Piven strategy, and it makes sense now. (I am not trying to be cryptic, it's just too much to get into and it's easy to find summaries about it.) I also saw a YouTube video where a man said he was traveling in first class and there were many African young men traveling to the United States. He struck up a conversation and all said they were "refugees." He wondered who bought their tickets.
Occasionally I have experienced reading an English word, thinking, “I know that is the word I expect, and it is spelled correctly - but another part of my mind says ‘that is not a valid English word.’” It then soon passes and I carry on with whatever I was originally doing. But the dissonance is real.
I wonder if I was seeing the upturned edge of a sheet that covers something much larger? Is there an illusion of ‘normal, expected’?
I have looked up the following words in a hard copy dictionary in the last month because I was stressed out by my inability to believe they were real: house, execute, genesis, ordinary, trivial, synthesis.
Yes - my experiences with this were not tightly associated with current social disputes (at the time that I experienced them), but it does pose a profound question - how do I “know” anything if my faculties of recognition can play such a trick on me?
To tell you how fearful I am of where this is all headed: I have been saying to myself: "sex with babies and children will always be wrong. I don't care what they say." Because I truly believe that is one of the end goals. Like the proverbial frog in a pot of water, people don't know they are being led to "warm up" to the idea.
That is my fear also. We used to know where the lines were drawn, we don’t anymore. One of my ‘friends’ was talking about adults who are attracted to children, and expressed it as ‘think how hard it would be to have to resist every day, when you see a child and you can’t have sex with them.’ My reaction showed on my face, so she said, ‘what if you really, really wanted a hot fudge sundae but you knew you could never have one again!’ Are you kidding me??
This is someone I used to think was intelligent. It was a horrible feeling to see her topple into this pit of insanity, like I can’t trust anything other people say or think. It’s the unreal feeling of looking through a telescope from the big end. It is dizzying, and as others have said here, ‘unmoored’. Afraid of the dark…as the pandemic was ending I was left with all of these unreal sensations and thought I must have had undiagnosed COVID, a mild case. Or maybe the vaccine caused this. Brain fog, of course. The nurse who gave me the first shot, told me to turn my head and I didn’t feel anything. Maybe she didn’t believe in it but couldn’t tell me. It was all so serious. I lost all of my closest friends (died) during the 2020-2024. Some from covid, some who hadn’t had the shot. It’s a game of Who is crazy, me or them?
Here’s the worst part. My old high school friends got together on new years. I brought up trannies and was attacked. They ganged up on me and called me names, like hater and judgmental. (Said very loudly, adding to the unreality) I was shocked. I’m still not over it. Now I’m the hater because Kamala is being made into the savior of the country by granting abortions freely and the Olympics have been degraded and there is something wrong with ME because I didn’t go along with all this insanity. They think I will change my mind if they yell at me, or glare at me, or both. All of a sudden I saw some partial truth, I suddenly understood Trump when he was almost shot. I can’t hate him anymore. He’s human. I have to keep silent on that. But maybe he wasn’t almost shot. Lies and coverups of lies.
Remember when we washed our groceries? Remember when we stood on floor circles six feet apart? Wore masks?Talked to store clerks through plexiglass? Left the mail out in the garage until the virus cleared from the envelopes? No wonder everything feels unreal.
Marianne, one of the benefits of military service and a ceremonial transition to manhood is that I know, in the pit of my stomach, that there is always the possibility that I could wake up one day a face my DIP mission (Die In Place, in pursuit of mission accomplishment). This means your friends turning on you would have bothered me much less - because I accept self-destruction in the pursuit of truth and righteousness. It would still hurt - just not as much as it would for people without my experience.
If you're keeping up with news in these crazy times, it's very important to restabilize yourself.
Get outside and walk in nature.
Turn off the WIFI while you sleep at night. Never keep a smartphone anywhere near your head while sleeping, best to keep ALL electronic devices out of the bedroom.
Eat as little processed food as possible, and as often as possible share meals with others, avoid eating alone. Avoid escape through drugs or alcohol.
Read actual books - do not get ALL your info from screens.
Listen to uplifting music while you cook or clean.
All of the above to keep your senses alive in a good way, enjoy good tasting food, look at the beauty of nature, keep wonderful scents around you, and listen to uplifting music and conversation. Have clean surroundings and guard your speech to keep it clean and positive.
Keep sane people around you (if you know any) and take good care of them. Find a way to have regular get-togethers.
If you need entertainment, watch old movies and old TV shows (you can get them on DVD at your library, undoubtedly). Do puzzles. Play board games with sane people.
If you're alone, get a dog, cat, betta fish, ratty, plant -- some living creature to take care of.
Set your phone to only notify you of calls/texts from sane people you love. Turn all other non-emergency notifications off. Check your email no more than twice a day.
Stay healthy. Find a way to move your body (dancing, walking, etc.), and make sure you're taking Vitamins D3, C, and zinc.
Stay away from degeneracy (e.g., porn, mainstream media) and find a hobby or interest to pour yourself into. Learn something, accomplish something -- even if it's a "little" something.
Above all, call on Christ and keep Him as your North Star if you ever feel adrift. Ask Mamma Mary to pray for you, lead you to all truth, and to keep your angels with you and the people you love.
Yes also when one lives alone like I do., take the opportunities as they come. But I should have added to my list above - avoid crazy people, or at least avoid engaging with them and trying explaining things to them - this can make you crazy/angry/frustrated etc.. They have made their choices and you cannot control other people. If there are limited number of people who share your beliefs/world views then find neutral people to engage with in some way.
For myself as a retired senior, this means playing cards 2 afternoons each week, little to no discussion of politics, etc. just light conversation, and interaction as part of a team in a game. Also I go out with a walking club one morning each week where the focus is getting exercise and looking at landscaping and gardens as we walk around neighborhoods. I don't know what is your age group or circumstances, but I would suggest making effort to find ways to be with others and engage in pleasant conversation, especially if you can't avoid the crazy like in your workplace.
I experience derealization. It's awful. It happens to me in relation to my home. Suddenly an object in my home will feel " off" . Typically it's an appliance or the boiler, plumbing system, heat vents etc.
Everything feels incompatible, separate and insrutable. It's extremely distressing. It's very difficult to explain the sensation.
Describing it as ' fake' is suitable but doesn't convey the depth of the feeling. I have great empathy for anyone who experiences derealization.
May I ask, is it part of a mental disorder? My older daughter's psychiatrist has at times suggested she has borderline personality disorder, and I think she experiences a sense that she does not exist at times.
I am diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I myself have never felt 'unreal' but I have a close friend (also borderline) who experiences the feeling that she is a doll and doesn't exist unless someone engages with her.
Yeah, it seems to happen a lot with bpd, cPTSD, and other major mood disorders. God, I feel for your friend, and for you. Derealization is not as common for me as it sounds like it is for you and for her. Mostly, it's happened during full-blown panic attacks. But it's been happening to me without full attacks in the past few weeks. My sister, too. People like you, other people suffering from traumatic pasts.
The world is making sane people crazy and crazy people crazier. 2 nights ago I had the 2nd panic attack of my life. No discernable reason, I was lounging in bed playing my Nintendo switch and suddenly full blown panic... at least that's what I think it was. Racing heart, shaking and convinced I was dying. I started thinking maybe I needed an ambulance. That thought sent me into feeling like I was going to pass out and in turn I panicked harder because I thought I was dying for sure!
The entire episode lasted maybe 20 minutes. What a shitty experience.
I experience this too, and just want to add that it can also be a symptom of thyroid disease, which is very common and quite under-tested for. My mother and son also suffer from it. Thyroid disease can certainly overlap with mental illness, including mood disorders, personality disorders, PTSD, and autism, but can also cause many of the same symptoms, compounding and confusing the issue. I recently messed up with my medication and it is terribly compounding the general sense of unreality and dissociation. I strongly recommend that anyone with intractable mood and perception issues insist on having their thyroid levels tested as well as receiving psychiatric interventions. It is a very simple and inexpensive test, and being medicated if you need it is a global shift.
For me it’s “I know I had a full container of cat food this morning. How did it get so low?” And numerous other similar experiences. Reading this is helping. I’m not alone after all!
What's troubling are the sheer number of people that fall for it. In the year 2024 there are still people wearing masks??? Even when their deity and supreme leader has said it was all a lie.
The old saying you "can't cure stupid." But everywhere you look is stupid. People that believed Joe Biden is the greatest President of our country and at the same time say he has to go. People still force their children to wear a mask. People that believe a man can birth a baby-where out of his anus?
Now stupid, naive, gullible, neurotic, etc. people have always been with us. But their sheer numbers and the intensity of their insanity and stupidity is off the charts. And our major institutions are fully supporting them. Can you imagine Walter Kronkite telling the listeners of CBS News that a man could birth a baby anally?
Will this stop? Because if not I don't see how the human race survives.
Yes to everything you said. We all know we're living the story of The Emperor's New Clothes. But this time, so far, nobody is listening to the little boy. Everybody's telling him he's hateful, nobody is coming out of the trance.
I think you’re talking about the current trans ideology, which is all based on lies…stupid lies. It’s a way to trans humanism…where there are no sexes and where we are all like robots. And that is so unreal, that it makes me wonder what will,happen to my children and grandchildren.Unless we stop the trans cult, we are in deep doo doo!
I was just commenting this morning to my wife how seemingly easy both the press & Congress have treated Obiden & his obvious cognitive decline as opposed to how Reagan was treated.
I too feel as if so where along the line a channel was switched and this is the “new show”.
Great observation!!!
It's popping up for me with regard to time. I keep noticing the date and time and getting angry. It feels like it should be Saturday morning. How in the fuck is it already lunchtime on Tuesday? What's going on? Also my muscle memory is good enough not to be a danger with this but it's happening to me while driving too, which is scary. Am I really not at home in my bed? Really? Luckily I have hands-free dialing and can talk while driving, which helps a lot. Blech. Blech on it all.
Yes, I'm glad you brought this up. The same thing is happening to me. I can't remember what day it is, I can't remember if I've done a task or only thought I did, or if I dreamed it.
I guess this must mean I'm dissociating.
If you still have that dry erase easel and markers I gave you, try that. I am finding that very helpful. I make a list and erase things as I do them. I take a picture of the list first thing before I start doing things. Doesn't do anything to help me stop being angry that the fairies stole three days (it IS Saturday, goddamnit...) but it's clarifying. Sigh.
Yes. Good idea. It's out, but I got out of the habit. Thank you.
I made myself do this today, only with paper and pen, striking through each task as I complete them. My to-do list is relatively short, but I’ve been so unnerved by all the propaganda lately that I can’t count on my short-term memory.
I have been a daily "to do" list maker for all of my adult life. But it hasn't stopped what Holly and Josh just described: the weird "out of time" experience, where it's oddly ten days since I came back from NH, and I would have guessed maybe 3 or 4. I figured it was my age (I'm 58), because everybody says time goes by faster as you get older. Now I am not sure what it is.
My new ADHD tool could help: I have a large-ish square notepad, and the night before I write (in pink permanent marker) the day of the week, month, date, followed by "now do this" in all caps. Then I add just the next 2 or so tasks with check boxes.
I sometimes find myself fully confused, thinking it is Autumn when it's Spring, or vice-versa. Very disorienting! What year is it again...? :)
I pay a lot of attention to my dreams, so I'm having the same sort of experience. Last night I dreamed of two glass doors: The first had a shutter that blocked my view of what was on the other side; the second was transparent and the sun was coming in brightly - *too* brightly. In the dream, I forced myself to open the second door, even though the light hurt my eyes and the handle was burning hot.
Thank you!!! 👏👏
I too have PTSD.. yet I think it is no surprise that people dissasociate, it has truly become insane in too many areas of our life!
When I find myself in a state of "unreal" I need to stop what I'm doing, breathe and look at my feet. Being grounded I guess...
For some weird reason that helps. Again and again.
Sending prayers you way!! 🙌
You just reminded me... Sometimes when I drive I get the feeling that the world is moving towards me rather than me moving forward in the world. It feels like a game or movie happening around me. I guess that might me a sign of derealization as well as what I wrote in my other comment.
💙🙏🏼💯 Thank you for sharing this (topic).
I am wondering how many of us feeling this derealuzation are anti-VAXers too? I was trying to make sense three years ago why so many people couldn’t see the Covid Scam-Demic for what it was. I came to learn that most of the people I knew who could see what was going on had their internal radar up because they lived that way their whole life (cPTSD symptom or gift depending on your perspective).
Heightened perception of threats (internal radar) out of necessity in childhood = superpower in our Brave New World. I’m grateful for it even if I have to do mental gymnastics to deal with derealization occasionally.
P.S ashwaganda supplements help calm cortisol spikes and dampen derealization.
This is a fascinating insight, wow! Thank you for sharing it. I've always wondered at the thought process of those who reluctantly rolled up their sleeves. More than one person I know A) assumed I didn't get it for some reason and B) told me defensively that they had, they weren't gonna get more, and 'we're all gonna die of something'.
Michi, I knew I wasn't that much smarter than my friends, but I couldn't believe what THEY believed about the scamdemic. I kept thinking there must be a reason why I heard every lie like if was being yelled into a bullhorn, until I realized you're right, I always had to read my father's ill intent with many things - for instance, I'm the 3rd, he was Jr, so back in the day he withdrew (stole) 2 grand from my college loan account, and I had to drop out of Penn State later that day. My father was a better liar than Fauci et al, so I saw it clearly but I couldn't make my friends see they were being played, partly cuz they grew up in Rockwell paintings.
Agreed- both on the anti-vaxer take and on the ashwagandha recommendation! Rhodelia root is another good adaptogen for living through super high stress.
Sorry, rhodiola not rhodelia!!
Maybe that cohort of people have defenses that helped them but I’ve lived a pretty awesome life and I know a bunch of other people who have too and didnt buy into it. I think, while there are a lot of different groups who wouldnt buy into it, the biggest one is probably just people that are strong enough to recognize that there can be evil in the world, that individuals they know and individuals who are in power can be evil. That “nice” people can be evil and that good and nice are not the same thing. People with horrible trauma can understand this, because they have been bludgeoned with that truth until they have psychological scars, but one needn’t necessarily go through that to understand that reality.
Indeed, probably the most vociferous supporters of it seem to be probably sufferers of some sort of deep psychological trauma as well, and their defense is to not question what the herd is doing and saying, ever.
Good point.
Good to know! Thank you for sharing this gem. 💎
CBD works, too
I totally get it. Add to it a sense of looking through a screen door and you nailed my experience. Besides all the weirdness in the news I am getting gaslit at work too. They are finding all these age related reasons not to promote me, then hiring less qualified younger people. Just tell the truth dammit! It is so disorienting.
I've been thinking I have reality dysphoria for a few years now. Not in the "profound sense of sadness" way, but in the 'mistrusting most of what I was taught, and the majority of what I'm told' way.' Just had a chat with a tradesman, he said something to the effect of, 'I'm human, just like you!' to which I replied, 'did you just assume my species??' We laughed. Then we stopped. This was in front of the house of a couple of transidentified men I'm neighborly with. My other non-binary neighbor on the block (we were friendly until I got her pronouns wrong) killed herself last year. This year, the flags are proliferating at a statistically impossible rate. Thanks for the space to vent, I'm sorry things are as they are. But at least Nick and I could laugh at it for a moment.
It's nice to have a moment of normalcy like that with another human (or so he SAYS.) I am picturing now what Josh mentioned earlier, though: imagining him like David Sutherland at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, arm outstretched and pointing at you, mouth open and letting out that God awful screech. * shudder *
Whoa - what? I missed the reference, but that sounds scary! I typically avoid gory horror - anything other than campy, really. Is this a movie not to be missed?
Also - Ha! Right? When we shook hands, I blacked out, so there's that. ; )
Haha! Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a CLASSIC. Here's a clip with the infamous ending. You can skip to the 1:20 mark or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP_SdjD5ms
Cheese and crackers what the WHAT? Kind of hilarious out of context, tho. Thanks for the clip : )
Haha, you're welcome. I am a big horror fan.
You had every right to laugh, so don’t ever ever forget that. You really live in difficult place. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. I would never want to live there.
Um... what's it like where you are?
I moved to a red state. I saw one half-and-half weirdo at a store but nothing besides that thank God. I have very decent neighbors who are not confused about what sex they are.
We moved to a deep red state a year ago and it's made a big difference. I loved where I lived in Cali (small, sweet town) but I don't think I realized how on edge I was until we left.
I’ve experienced a lot of the same things in life that you’ve talked about on your show, Josh, and live quite close to Vermont; I relate to you and support you. There have been some very dramatic War With Eastasia moments since March 2020. I dare say you’re feeling the strain (I mean this nicely). It’s dark, and it must be all the harder after losing that job. I’m delighted to have you with us in the teetotal club; that counts for a lot. As for derealization, try reading books written before 1960 or 1900, if you don’t already; it keeps you grounded in what came before all this. That’s all I can say.
I actually want to cry when I watch older movies. Just to see males looking like men and females like women. Who knew that would go away? I was also watching an older movie a while ago where a sleazy boss smacked his secretary on the ass with a leer on his face. I actually thought, I'd go back to that time in a heartbeat. At least we knew what was going on with "that." (By the way, I also quit alcohol a couple years ago. We need our wits about us as we descend into this madness.)
Yeah I’m reading The Bell Jar right now and feel that way. Sylvia Plath’s protagonist is all very moody and emo, but I envy her living in the world of 1953. People exchange phone numbers and call each, write letters, go on dates and to parties, read poetry aloud, seduce each other and discover sex the normal way even as magazines promote chastity. It sounds wonderful even if I would have been a repressed gay.
That's a blast from the past. I read it a long time ago. I'd rather have people behaving badly as long as everybody knows it's bad. I think that makes sense? I prefer that over people seemingly under a spell, believing people can change their sex, or that kids can be trusted about anything they say they want as being something they should get.
I got into a particular soap opera because I was so bummed out on the trans insanity back in 2020. And yes, it is quite refreshing to see men acting like men and women acting like women!
Susan, I was reading a book called “Wolfen” it was from the 80s and the male partner was allowed to say a lot of “sexist”/TRUE things to the female, and I was furious because they ruined free speech and a man cannot even tell a woman she’s doing the wrong thing even if she screwing up everything. It was killing me.
Women are 17 times more depression medicine then they were in the 50s and women’s alcoholism has doubled just in the last three years since Covid. God bless you you were able to get away with it. It’s not easy
Everything has been ruined by modern culture, frankly. As you pointed out, the relationship between the sexes is abnormal, as is the interaction between races --- made far worse since we've had a black president. Go figure.
The less time online the better, I find, especially avoiding X and the msm. I've rediscovered reading, and it is keeping me sane. I recently read "The Catcher in the Rye." It made me remember what life was like before cell phones, the now constant imposing of other realities, lack of constant surveillance, no confusion about what used to be a shared, rich reality. The ordinary was so extraordinary now.
Yes! I love movies pre-internet. No cell phones. It's heavenly.
Book recommendations?
I identify with all of this! March 2020 was when everything went off kilter for me too, and I'm trying to come to terms ever since with living in a mad world. I knocked the booze on the head in June 2021: without that magic potion that made everything (temporarily) feel so great I have to live with myself now, all the time. It's not easy but it's much, much better this way. I don't watch contemporary TV or films. Just can't stand them. I've built up a large DVD collection, you can pick them up cheaply now, and I watch old films and TV series that way. Nothing post 2015 but mostly much older than that. British TV from the seventies always makes me happy, quite why I don't know, it's certainly not the production values. Maybe a strange nostalgia for the world that existed just before my birth (I'm a very late Gen X Brit). Old books. It doesn't have to be nineteenth century but it helps. This great turning away from contemporary culture seems quite common from what I read online, but I suspect most people out there are still mainlining Netflix?
The BBC in the ‘70s was certainly the apogee of television. The British are/were a brilliant people, truly.
I have had some waves of this happen since I was a child. It is like a feeling that I am some spirit looking into a strange "reality" that I don't quite belong to. But it only happens for a few seconds when it happens.
I do think seeing people move on from the assassination attempt can do this. I think people have had enough trauma [like 9/11 and January 6th (whether the treatment of inmates or those who believe it was an insurrection) and COVID lockdowns and fearporn] that this assassination attempt was too much for them to handle and they are disassociating from it by downplaying it.
I also have a tendency to disassociate, which feels similar but more like an old coping mechanism than the other.
This probably isn't the same, but I have not been able to talk to any friends for the past few weeks because they have all gone coo-coo for Kamala. If they do text and say "what are you doing" I say "sitting home watching the world swirl around me" but they have no idea what I'm talking about.
I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe. I'm avoiding everyone.
The only person who makes sense to me in my network is my 18 year old grandson.
Liza, I know what you mean. I have given up on trying to have constructive political discussions with nearly anyone outside of my household because they’re too busy mainlining MSNBC to see the world as it really is.
I feel that if I were frank with my friends about my gut feeling re Kamala, I would have no friends at all.luckily both my sons and my daughter are not all worshipping her! This instant love affair with her seems to have happened so quickly, because everyone was desperate for a “ savior”, and without much thinking she was that savior! Nobody really wants to look at the downsides of the things she has done that are not so savory (sic)! No women look at her stand on the regressive trans ideology she supports 100%! Too bad! Hero worship is not real healthy if the hero or heroine is a paper one .
Yes! The Gen Z young men. I have several in my life, including my sons. They are a breath of fresh air. Sort of insane and impulsive (what do you expect?) but among the only ones who see through things right now.
Ditto- feeling the same way, avoiding hangout with my friends because of the politics and I just can’t listen anymore. I have resigned myself to avoiding TV, reading classics, and spending time with my pre-teen son when not working. Youth is a blessing. Best way to forget all of the BS is to listen to 12 and 13 year old kids talk about video games and where they will go biking next.
You have my sympathies that your friends are dumb enough/manipulatible enough that they're buying into the ms-kackle-pants gaslighting!
You might want to develop a new set of friends. I have difficulty conversing or even being around people who don’t get it, ie recognize patterns that are happening which reveal what is going on in our universe. It is mind boggling how selectively dense people are. Take the Olympic opening, for instance. Before reading any story about it, seeing only the photo of the drag-clad weirdos around the table, I knew it was a mockery of the Last Supper. Then came the denial that it had anything to do with it-don’t believe what you see-. It does not take genius to see it, just trust your own eyes.
I can really identify with your comment. I am (or used to be) a really fun filled person, enjoying dancing, music, socialising etc and now, I really am very negative. I can feel it happening but can’t stop it. I have ‘friends’ and family that believe the government did the best they could during covid and the vax saved millions of lives. They believe in wearing masks and getting their children vaccinated and that buying an electric car will save the planet 🤡 I can’t have fun while all this crazy goes on around me! I am utterly drowning in stupid 🤦♀️
As hard as it can be to be isolated, it really is preferable to being among the koolaid drinkers.
I’m going to follow everybody in the thread. I wish we knew each other in real life, but at least we can encourage each other here.
And that exactely is their goal .. demoralization!
I will find my joy again!!!! F... them!!!
🌸
I feel very destabilized by exactly what you describe. Like every day I am asking myself if I am the bad person for not feeling how the media describes how I should feel or if “friends” tell me how excited they are about Kamala… Friends that previously did not say: “I am only voting for Biden because he has a solid VP who is great and accomplishes a lot” or “I am so happy Biden picked Kamala as the VP, her work is great.”
No everyone was silent about her. Always.
Now she is the next political wonder that everyone just wants to be president. She has not even said or done anything fundamental since the nomination. Yet, everyone is swooning like moths finding a light in the dark. Even if the light will kill them.
I feel like my reality is shifting. Like my losing eyes are purposefully betraying me and I just need to be educated.
This feels exactly like the emotional manipulation I experienced my first marriage.
🍞
I start the day by walking in the woods and gardening. Literally being grounded is a good antidote to being swept away by events over which we have no control.
This is the answer. I used to play a lot of Skyrim and then I would go for a walk and want to pull out my bow and shoot the squirrels and bunnies. And think “wow, the graphics are so good.” And I thought man, I need to quit playing video games. It’s messing with my mind.
Josh, I don't think I have this malady you describe but since the Biden presidency many things seem unreal. Top of the list: I never realized how one person as president could destroy so much of this country by open borders and none of the other branches of Govt can intervene. What happened to the fabled "Checks and Balances" we all learned about in grade school? Congress does nothing, the Supreme Court does nothing. Who knew it was so easy for one person to ruin the USA as we know it? That seems unreal because it IS unreal. This isn't supposed to happen but it's happening with no end in sight. Now I hear there's a rise in illegal crossings at the northern border.
Things seem unmoored, nothing is secured. COVID ushered in a pandemic that nobody saw since 1918. That wasn't supposed to happen either. People just don't mention it because they don't want to be treated like a nut case. I suspect the symptoms you describe are widespread. You are one of the brave few who talks about it.
Bob, I remember in Biden's first year his handlers cancelled all of Trump's exec orders that were shutting down illegal immigration, and Tom Cotton was almost yelling on a Fox News show, saying "Biden is opening the border on purpose!! This invasion is being done on purpose!" and I was freaked out: this was a US Senator feeling powerless (he wasn't pulling a Graham, he was truly calling out their lies). When the media lies like they lie, it takes average US citizens years to see the real truth, then more years to fix the problem by (hopefully soon) going back to Trump's migrant policies.
The immigration issue is the one that is most alarming to me. I didn't understand it at all until somebody mentioned the Cloward-Piven strategy, and it makes sense now. (I am not trying to be cryptic, it's just too much to get into and it's easy to find summaries about it.) I also saw a YouTube video where a man said he was traveling in first class and there were many African young men traveling to the United States. He struck up a conversation and all said they were "refugees." He wondered who bought their tickets.
Occasionally I have experienced reading an English word, thinking, “I know that is the word I expect, and it is spelled correctly - but another part of my mind says ‘that is not a valid English word.’” It then soon passes and I carry on with whatever I was originally doing. But the dissonance is real.
I wonder if I was seeing the upturned edge of a sheet that covers something much larger? Is there an illusion of ‘normal, expected’?
I have looked up the following words in a hard copy dictionary in the last month because I was stressed out by my inability to believe they were real: house, execute, genesis, ordinary, trivial, synthesis.
Yes - my experiences with this were not tightly associated with current social disputes (at the time that I experienced them), but it does pose a profound question - how do I “know” anything if my faculties of recognition can play such a trick on me?
To tell you how fearful I am of where this is all headed: I have been saying to myself: "sex with babies and children will always be wrong. I don't care what they say." Because I truly believe that is one of the end goals. Like the proverbial frog in a pot of water, people don't know they are being led to "warm up" to the idea.
That is my fear also. We used to know where the lines were drawn, we don’t anymore. One of my ‘friends’ was talking about adults who are attracted to children, and expressed it as ‘think how hard it would be to have to resist every day, when you see a child and you can’t have sex with them.’ My reaction showed on my face, so she said, ‘what if you really, really wanted a hot fudge sundae but you knew you could never have one again!’ Are you kidding me??
This is someone I used to think was intelligent. It was a horrible feeling to see her topple into this pit of insanity, like I can’t trust anything other people say or think. It’s the unreal feeling of looking through a telescope from the big end. It is dizzying, and as others have said here, ‘unmoored’. Afraid of the dark…as the pandemic was ending I was left with all of these unreal sensations and thought I must have had undiagnosed COVID, a mild case. Or maybe the vaccine caused this. Brain fog, of course. The nurse who gave me the first shot, told me to turn my head and I didn’t feel anything. Maybe she didn’t believe in it but couldn’t tell me. It was all so serious. I lost all of my closest friends (died) during the 2020-2024. Some from covid, some who hadn’t had the shot. It’s a game of Who is crazy, me or them?
Here’s the worst part. My old high school friends got together on new years. I brought up trannies and was attacked. They ganged up on me and called me names, like hater and judgmental. (Said very loudly, adding to the unreality) I was shocked. I’m still not over it. Now I’m the hater because Kamala is being made into the savior of the country by granting abortions freely and the Olympics have been degraded and there is something wrong with ME because I didn’t go along with all this insanity. They think I will change my mind if they yell at me, or glare at me, or both. All of a sudden I saw some partial truth, I suddenly understood Trump when he was almost shot. I can’t hate him anymore. He’s human. I have to keep silent on that. But maybe he wasn’t almost shot. Lies and coverups of lies.
Remember when we washed our groceries? Remember when we stood on floor circles six feet apart? Wore masks?Talked to store clerks through plexiglass? Left the mail out in the garage until the virus cleared from the envelopes? No wonder everything feels unreal.
Marianne, one of the benefits of military service and a ceremonial transition to manhood is that I know, in the pit of my stomach, that there is always the possibility that I could wake up one day a face my DIP mission (Die In Place, in pursuit of mission accomplishment). This means your friends turning on you would have bothered me much less - because I accept self-destruction in the pursuit of truth and righteousness. It would still hurt - just not as much as it would for people without my experience.
If you're keeping up with news in these crazy times, it's very important to restabilize yourself.
Get outside and walk in nature.
Turn off the WIFI while you sleep at night. Never keep a smartphone anywhere near your head while sleeping, best to keep ALL electronic devices out of the bedroom.
Eat as little processed food as possible, and as often as possible share meals with others, avoid eating alone. Avoid escape through drugs or alcohol.
Read actual books - do not get ALL your info from screens.
Listen to uplifting music while you cook or clean.
All of the above to keep your senses alive in a good way, enjoy good tasting food, look at the beauty of nature, keep wonderful scents around you, and listen to uplifting music and conversation. Have clean surroundings and guard your speech to keep it clean and positive.
Good list! I'd add:
Keep sane people around you (if you know any) and take good care of them. Find a way to have regular get-togethers.
If you need entertainment, watch old movies and old TV shows (you can get them on DVD at your library, undoubtedly). Do puzzles. Play board games with sane people.
If you're alone, get a dog, cat, betta fish, ratty, plant -- some living creature to take care of.
Set your phone to only notify you of calls/texts from sane people you love. Turn all other non-emergency notifications off. Check your email no more than twice a day.
Stay healthy. Find a way to move your body (dancing, walking, etc.), and make sure you're taking Vitamins D3, C, and zinc.
Stay away from degeneracy (e.g., porn, mainstream media) and find a hobby or interest to pour yourself into. Learn something, accomplish something -- even if it's a "little" something.
Above all, call on Christ and keep Him as your North Star if you ever feel adrift. Ask Mamma Mary to pray for you, lead you to all truth, and to keep your angels with you and the people you love.
Thank you for mentioning taking care of our spiritual need.
Great advice. Thank you. We need to remind ourselves of these truths often.
Very hard to eat meals with others when they are crazy
Yes also when one lives alone like I do., take the opportunities as they come. But I should have added to my list above - avoid crazy people, or at least avoid engaging with them and trying explaining things to them - this can make you crazy/angry/frustrated etc.. They have made their choices and you cannot control other people. If there are limited number of people who share your beliefs/world views then find neutral people to engage with in some way.
For myself as a retired senior, this means playing cards 2 afternoons each week, little to no discussion of politics, etc. just light conversation, and interaction as part of a team in a game. Also I go out with a walking club one morning each week where the focus is getting exercise and looking at landscaping and gardens as we walk around neighborhoods. I don't know what is your age group or circumstances, but I would suggest making effort to find ways to be with others and engage in pleasant conversation, especially if you can't avoid the crazy like in your workplace.
I experience derealization. It's awful. It happens to me in relation to my home. Suddenly an object in my home will feel " off" . Typically it's an appliance or the boiler, plumbing system, heat vents etc.
Everything feels incompatible, separate and insrutable. It's extremely distressing. It's very difficult to explain the sensation.
Describing it as ' fake' is suitable but doesn't convey the depth of the feeling. I have great empathy for anyone who experiences derealization.
May I ask, is it part of a mental disorder? My older daughter's psychiatrist has at times suggested she has borderline personality disorder, and I think she experiences a sense that she does not exist at times.
I am diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I myself have never felt 'unreal' but I have a close friend (also borderline) who experiences the feeling that she is a doll and doesn't exist unless someone engages with her.
Yeah, it seems to happen a lot with bpd, cPTSD, and other major mood disorders. God, I feel for your friend, and for you. Derealization is not as common for me as it sounds like it is for you and for her. Mostly, it's happened during full-blown panic attacks. But it's been happening to me without full attacks in the past few weeks. My sister, too. People like you, other people suffering from traumatic pasts.
The world is making sane people crazy and crazy people crazier. 2 nights ago I had the 2nd panic attack of my life. No discernable reason, I was lounging in bed playing my Nintendo switch and suddenly full blown panic... at least that's what I think it was. Racing heart, shaking and convinced I was dying. I started thinking maybe I needed an ambulance. That thought sent me into feeling like I was going to pass out and in turn I panicked harder because I thought I was dying for sure!
The entire episode lasted maybe 20 minutes. What a shitty experience.
Yes, that was a panic attack. I'm sorry.
If you can convince a doctor to give you a few rescue Xanax's, that's a godsend.
That's a great idea. I'll ask my psychiatrist. I'm nervous now at night , worried it will happen again. Thank you Josh
I experience this too, and just want to add that it can also be a symptom of thyroid disease, which is very common and quite under-tested for. My mother and son also suffer from it. Thyroid disease can certainly overlap with mental illness, including mood disorders, personality disorders, PTSD, and autism, but can also cause many of the same symptoms, compounding and confusing the issue. I recently messed up with my medication and it is terribly compounding the general sense of unreality and dissociation. I strongly recommend that anyone with intractable mood and perception issues insist on having their thyroid levels tested as well as receiving psychiatric interventions. It is a very simple and inexpensive test, and being medicated if you need it is a global shift.
Thank you for this!
For me it’s “I know I had a full container of cat food this morning. How did it get so low?” And numerous other similar experiences. Reading this is helping. I’m not alone after all!
What's troubling are the sheer number of people that fall for it. In the year 2024 there are still people wearing masks??? Even when their deity and supreme leader has said it was all a lie.
The old saying you "can't cure stupid." But everywhere you look is stupid. People that believed Joe Biden is the greatest President of our country and at the same time say he has to go. People still force their children to wear a mask. People that believe a man can birth a baby-where out of his anus?
Now stupid, naive, gullible, neurotic, etc. people have always been with us. But their sheer numbers and the intensity of their insanity and stupidity is off the charts. And our major institutions are fully supporting them. Can you imagine Walter Kronkite telling the listeners of CBS News that a man could birth a baby anally?
Will this stop? Because if not I don't see how the human race survives.
Yes to everything you said. We all know we're living the story of The Emperor's New Clothes. But this time, so far, nobody is listening to the little boy. Everybody's telling him he's hateful, nobody is coming out of the trance.
I think you’re talking about the current trans ideology, which is all based on lies…stupid lies. It’s a way to trans humanism…where there are no sexes and where we are all like robots. And that is so unreal, that it makes me wonder what will,happen to my children and grandchildren.Unless we stop the trans cult, we are in deep doo doo!
Thank you. Some people will just believe want they want to believe ad nauseum.