This episode is epic: Explains; reveals and disturbs in a methodical manner. What a Hoot! And Kafka was made mention. Kafka and A. Rand provide my understanding of the political until this episode.....This one I am sharing
You have done an outstanding job explaining Cluster B succinctly. The insight that their success rate of treatment is so low because they don’t think there is anything wrong with them was a light bulb moment for me. I’m reminded of a friend’s parent who claimed when they were young, “I’m always right and I never lie” all while being completely mistaken about basic facts and living double lives. That statement also could come out of the likes of our oppressive elites like the NZ prime minister who claimed only her department could produce truth. Scary that this has grown to such a scale!
The concept that gave you a light bulb moment is the contrast between states called "ego-syntonic," and "ego-dystonic." Personality disorders are "ego-syntonic." That means that the person experiences their dysfunction as NOT dysfunction. It is natural to them. They do not have a problem; only other people have problems.
Excellent discussion! Any thoughts on how to manage Cluster B's? Or what to do when a whole company/group/workplace is Cluster B?
I worked for a corporation which had a slogan about wanting to be the most admired company in the world, for its specialty. That seems to be classic narcissism, but at corporate scale. Happy to be out of that toxic stew!
In regards to Sinèad O'Connor: I am a fan of her music generally but one song, Famine, really stands out to me.
My family is very "Celtic," my mother's side, specifically is entirely Irish. As far as I know we don't have any family back in Ireland, as they all came to the US from northern Ireland in the 1800s but my family remains stereotypically "Irish-American Catholic."
I bring this up because my mom has BPD and in O'connor's song Famine she talks about the persecution the Irish faced fron the British and how the Irish are childlike and now (well in the 90s) were blowing each other up because they all had PTSD. This rings true for me and my experience in my family. 3 of my mother's 6 siblings have schizoid disorders: schizophrenia, BPD, and Narcissistic/Histrionic PD. Alcoholism is almost everywhere, and my mom and some of her sisters have a tendency to hate women but then sabotage all their sons (it is striking how my female cousins, who are also dealing with the chaos, generally "get it together" much more quickly and seamlessly than the men). It's worth noting my grandfather died when my mom and siblings were young and despite a good stepdad several years later, the house was generally dominated by strong and unstable female personalities.
It just makes me wonder if one's ethnic background can "carry" Cluster B in more ways than just genetically, and if so, if anyone has noticed it carrying on in other cultures?
Tremendous episode. Deep and affecting. And, FWIW, Josh, I appreciate your willingness to seek to empathize with your mother’s situation and thereby forgive her for what she did to her children. But this is the kind of thing that made me quit therapy and makes me unable to accept Christianity as a faith, though I totally believe in god (in the quantum entanglement sense). I reject this expectation of forgiveness because it makes the victim suffer yet again, inasmuch as it is impossible to truly grasp anyone else’s emotional makeup, which makes the process of letting go extremely painful for anyone who needs at least some justice in order to be able to do so (IOW, who is not partially a masochist). Mostly, though, I reject it because the *victim’s* emotional situation is, IMO, given very short shrift. For such forgiveness to work, both parties must be engaged in the struggle (entangled, in a sense) and the perp must do the hard work of being genuinely sorry for what she’s done. Otherwise, it’s forced cheap grace. I reject our culture of forced suffering. And while I do think it is necessary to release one’s attachment to such situations, to keep them from destroying one’s psyche, all I see in these cultural expectations is a societal refusal to make proper judgments, no matter how terrible the acts, which has become ubiquitous and, to my mind, is destroying our ability to first punish and *then* seek forgiveness. I refuse to be chastised by the death cult we’re badgered by.
Thank you. I'm with you, though. I don't--and I said this---forgive. It's not something I can do right now, and maybe never. Understanding is the best I can get.
Like you, I resent the imperative from outside to "forgive."
If my mother wanted forgiveness, she could have done her part to make that happen. An apology and some honesty would have been enough to open that door for me.
Regarding YouTube’s flagging nonsense, Scientism American is still flagged by Youtube as being a “Medical Journal”
This episode is epic: Explains; reveals and disturbs in a methodical manner. What a Hoot! And Kafka was made mention. Kafka and A. Rand provide my understanding of the political until this episode.....This one I am sharing
You have done an outstanding job explaining Cluster B succinctly. The insight that their success rate of treatment is so low because they don’t think there is anything wrong with them was a light bulb moment for me. I’m reminded of a friend’s parent who claimed when they were young, “I’m always right and I never lie” all while being completely mistaken about basic facts and living double lives. That statement also could come out of the likes of our oppressive elites like the NZ prime minister who claimed only her department could produce truth. Scary that this has grown to such a scale!
Thank you--I'm glad to know I made it clear.
The concept that gave you a light bulb moment is the contrast between states called "ego-syntonic," and "ego-dystonic." Personality disorders are "ego-syntonic." That means that the person experiences their dysfunction as NOT dysfunction. It is natural to them. They do not have a problem; only other people have problems.
Excellent discussion! Any thoughts on how to manage Cluster B's? Or what to do when a whole company/group/workplace is Cluster B?
I worked for a corporation which had a slogan about wanting to be the most admired company in the world, for its specialty. That seems to be classic narcissism, but at corporate scale. Happy to be out of that toxic stew!
In regards to Sinèad O'Connor: I am a fan of her music generally but one song, Famine, really stands out to me.
My family is very "Celtic," my mother's side, specifically is entirely Irish. As far as I know we don't have any family back in Ireland, as they all came to the US from northern Ireland in the 1800s but my family remains stereotypically "Irish-American Catholic."
I bring this up because my mom has BPD and in O'connor's song Famine she talks about the persecution the Irish faced fron the British and how the Irish are childlike and now (well in the 90s) were blowing each other up because they all had PTSD. This rings true for me and my experience in my family. 3 of my mother's 6 siblings have schizoid disorders: schizophrenia, BPD, and Narcissistic/Histrionic PD. Alcoholism is almost everywhere, and my mom and some of her sisters have a tendency to hate women but then sabotage all their sons (it is striking how my female cousins, who are also dealing with the chaos, generally "get it together" much more quickly and seamlessly than the men). It's worth noting my grandfather died when my mom and siblings were young and despite a good stepdad several years later, the house was generally dominated by strong and unstable female personalities.
It just makes me wonder if one's ethnic background can "carry" Cluster B in more ways than just genetically, and if so, if anyone has noticed it carrying on in other cultures?
Tremendous episode. Deep and affecting. And, FWIW, Josh, I appreciate your willingness to seek to empathize with your mother’s situation and thereby forgive her for what she did to her children. But this is the kind of thing that made me quit therapy and makes me unable to accept Christianity as a faith, though I totally believe in god (in the quantum entanglement sense). I reject this expectation of forgiveness because it makes the victim suffer yet again, inasmuch as it is impossible to truly grasp anyone else’s emotional makeup, which makes the process of letting go extremely painful for anyone who needs at least some justice in order to be able to do so (IOW, who is not partially a masochist). Mostly, though, I reject it because the *victim’s* emotional situation is, IMO, given very short shrift. For such forgiveness to work, both parties must be engaged in the struggle (entangled, in a sense) and the perp must do the hard work of being genuinely sorry for what she’s done. Otherwise, it’s forced cheap grace. I reject our culture of forced suffering. And while I do think it is necessary to release one’s attachment to such situations, to keep them from destroying one’s psyche, all I see in these cultural expectations is a societal refusal to make proper judgments, no matter how terrible the acts, which has become ubiquitous and, to my mind, is destroying our ability to first punish and *then* seek forgiveness. I refuse to be chastised by the death cult we’re badgered by.
Thank you. I'm with you, though. I don't--and I said this---forgive. It's not something I can do right now, and maybe never. Understanding is the best I can get.
Like you, I resent the imperative from outside to "forgive."
If my mother wanted forgiveness, she could have done her part to make that happen. An apology and some honesty would have been enough to open that door for me.
But she won't, and she can't.
So glad to see my K-12 school district featured on your episode (Hillsboro school district in Oregon). So great. Not.